Rear Wheel Steering

[TruckElectric]

Because if you get a CT stuck, your really stuck..

That's why there needs to be an in-house built winch!

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[flowerlandfilms]

I think this is very cool, more bragging rights for me.
My only concern, if you want to call it a concern, is FSD.
The current fleet has no driving data about how four wheel steer assists in driving or helps with collision avoidance. Therefore I assume it would take time before FSD in the Cybertruck had enough data to fully utilize these features. And would perhaps permanently fork the Cybertruck FSD from the other cars in the fleet maybe? I won't pretend to be an expert however so feel free to correct this assumption if you know better.

 

[rr6013]

I think we all should get what we saw and what we put our reservation in for, no downsizing and no extra money for options that we don’t need. Dual motor with FSD and nothing more for me, please. $49.9k plus $7k.

I need a truck, not a clown car.

 

[firsttruck]

Exactly, I'm all for this feature being added, especially if it proves to be practically applied and not a party trick. I've gotten my truck into some goofy off-road situations that would have been easily remedied by a tank turn or being able to aim my butt better.

The other thing to remember is that the CT is being designed to be pretty autonomous for the most part. Having this level of control given to AP for things like parking, summon and normal driving will probably be insanely versatile.

Depending how the linkage and torque vectoring works a tank turn is totally possible, I'm really curious to the Tesla solution to that, if they even want to make it happen.

Rivian type tank turn will very very rarely be usable.
Requires a slippery surface on a hard/firm surface (firm enough to support weight of vehicle).
Ie. layers of mud over a firm dirt surface or watery ice/snow mix over firm ice surface.

Rivian type tank turn can absolute NOT be used on non-slippery paved road.
Use of Rivian type tank turn on non slippery paved roads will in best case ruin tires or worse case damage drive-train.

Rivian type tank turn probably never used in city or suburban locations.

Rivian type tank turn is a party trick.

Hummer crab walk & Cybertruck rear steer can absolutely be used on paved roads and have many good use cases for paved roads.

 

[ricinro]

I am sure most of us were wanting to see the final design half a year ago. But now I am thinking that Tesla may have finalized most of the structural aspects of the CT and are allowing competitors to reveal their gimmicks while they still have the choice to add similar or better features and announce them as CT roll off the line.
For this reason, it would not surprise me if CT would allow backup power like the lightning, or a refrigerated frunk working off the octovalve heat pump.
On a debbie downer note: Watching the good progress in Austin and the casting machines it seems to me that it takes at least 4-6 months to get the foundation and casting machine set up once the casting machine shows up. While the front/rear castings appear ready for the end of the year for the model Y it does not appear like the front/rear castings for the CT will be ready this year or maybe next spring.
I would temper expectations for CT until at least Q2 next year.

 

[FutureBoy]

At this point, I'm thinking that we may not get the full design update till the castings can be made for the CT so that we can see what the CT will really be like. I'm sure that Tesla has some awesome designs and possibly some hand-built prototypes. But to really be able to show and demo the CT I'd think they want to have the full castings in place. Till then it would be a demo of this is what it will look like but we can't show it in full action because it is not strong enough yet.

 

[Ryan95738]

Just think if Tesla offered an option to jump in line. (Stirring the pot)

For only $71,000 more dollars you can be the first in line behind everyone else who pays this $71,000

 

[BillyGee]

At this point, I'm thinking that we may not get the full design update till the castings can be made for the CT so that we can see what the CT will really be like. I'm sure that Tesla has some awesome designs and possibly some hand-built prototypes. But to really be able to show and demo the CT I'd think they want to have the full castings in place. Till then it would be a demo of this is what it will look like but we can't show it in full action because it is not strong enough yet.

There were rumors of a Fremont pilot line going up for training. Even if the don't have a press made they can build frames traditionally. I'm sure at that point we'll get some more info, especially if the design proves feasible. It's also possible we're going to see some of those pilot vehicles start wandering the bay area, assuming they're functional and fully assembled vehicles.

 

[firsttruck]

I am sure most of us were wanting to see the final design half a year ago. But now I am thinking that Tesla may have finalized most of the structural aspects of the CT and are allowing competitors to reveal their gimmicks while they still have the choice to add similar or better features and announce them as CT roll off the line.
For this reason, it would not surprise me if CT would allow backup power like the Lightning,

The $40K base model F-150 Lightning Pro 230mi is not going to power much of the house at all. It only has 120V outlets and zero (0) 240V outlets. Maybe 2.4KW so your refrigerator and a small electric heater. Most A/C or electric water heaters use 240V.

The $40K base single motor 250mi comes standard with 240V and will probable supply at least twice or more the power of $40K Lightning Pro 230mi.
$40K base single motor 250mi comes standard with 240V should power many A/C and medium size space heaters.

To properly power a house (more than just an extension cord for a couple appliances) you need dedicated equipment on the house side. Everything most houses need is NOT in Lightning prices because what equipment is required & the installation varies significantly from house to house.

The in-house side of truck to home power system will be the similar for $56K 230mi Lightning XL+ with 240V power or $40K 250mi single motor Cybertruck with 240V power or $50K 300mi dual motor AWD Cybertruck with 240V power.

See Ford F-150 Lightning trim/option prices
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.co...pricing-seems-much-more-competitive-now.3336/

 

[Diehard]

I would temper expectations for CT until at least Q2 next year.

Oh no. Please anytime but Q2. I am still going to therapy for Q2 of this year.

I think this is very cool, more bragging rights for me.
My only concern, if you want to call it a concern, is FSD.
The current fleet has no driving data about how four wheel steer assists in driving or helps with collision avoidance. Therefore I assume it would take time before FSD in the Cybertruck had enough data to fully utilize these features. And would perhaps permanently fork the Cybertruck FSD from the other cars in the fleet maybe? I won't pretend to be an expert however so feel free to correct this assumption if you know better.

I have no personal experience with FSD but I won’t let that stop me from expressing an opinion. I doubt it is a big deal. I assume FSD consist of following:

1 - what the world around me is like?
2 - where am I in it?
3 - what the rules of interaction is?
4 - where am I suppose to be?
5 - how do I get there?

last one is the only one that may have slight differences with CT rear steering. I assume FSD will drive CT the same way you do when changing lanes:
Turn the wheel
Am I in the new lane yet? No
keep the wheel turned.
am I there yet? Almost
start turning the wheel back
am I there yet? Yes
keep the wheel straight

Even if turning may be different in CT, feedback mechanism is the same.

Especially with AI, it just needs to watch the input and output of the system during any change to learn how to drive it. It does not need to know what is inside the black box. That is how we will do it when we get our CT.

I pulled this out of my ‘hat’ so anyone that actually know what they are talking about feel free to correct me.

 

[Cyber30X]

And here's a generic article on Pros/Cons of Rear Wheel Steering:
https://www.mastermechanic.ca/blog/master-mechanic-the-pros-and-cons-of-all-wheel-steering/

I’ve owned a Suburban 2500 with Quadrasteer for 260k miles. There are ZERO Cons after getting used to turns that swing the rear a little wide. Once used to it there’s no going back … thus 260k miles on my truck. Just sold it to make room for CyberTruck. If it adds $2k to the price GET IT!!! It’s a life changer in tight quarters and crabbing lane changes on the highway. GM never should have canceled Quadrasteer. It’s brilliant.

 

[JBee]

Oh no. Please anytime but Q2. I am still going to therapy for Q2 of this year.



I have no personal experience with FSD but I won’t let that stop me from expressing an opinion. I doubt it is a big deal. I assume FSD consist of following:

1 - what the world around me is like?
2 - where am I in it?
3 - what the rules of interaction is?
4 - where am I suppose to be?
5 - how do I get there?

last one is the only one that may have slight differences with CT rear steering. I assume FSD will drive CT the same way you do when changing lanes:
Turn the wheel
Am I in the new lane yet? No
keep the wheel turned.
am I there yet? Almost
start turning the wheel back
am I there yet? Yes
keep the wheel straight

Even if turning may be different in CT, feedback mechanism is the same.

Especially with AI, it just needs to watch the input and output of the system during any change to learn how to drive it. It does not need to know what is inside the black box. That is how we will do it when we get our CT.

I pulled this out of my ‘hat’ so anyone that actually know what they are talking about feel free to correct me.

Adapting the FSD for quad steer will likely just require some tuning of the yaw rate PID controller. (Not AI) Even if it "learned it" which I doubt they do, it would only need a few minutes of driving. FSD outputs for driving are limited to steering angle, throttle and brake. Thats all you can control on a car to drive anyway. (Btw I make and fly my own quadplanes since 2015 including flight controller programming)

The only other variable would be to make it speed sensitive, but those settings would apply to manual driving as well and would be handled separately to the FSD. Typically that would be counter steer for slow speeds to reduce steering angles (and CV wear etc) and radius, and then at highway speeds crab steer for lane changes with added stability.

I have a 4 wheel steer telehandler/tractor we use every day, and for field work you use crab steer a lot to reduce ground compaction (because you can have 4 tracks instead of two) and use it to get machinery closer to the fenceline etc without damaging the tractor. Works well but it definitely requires a different skill set than normal driving skills and is not as easy as it looks. But for low speed short manoeuvring parts most should be able to handle it.

The biggest benefit of quadsteer is still reducing the turning radius with that long wheelbase and reducing the large wheel fenders for turning 35" tyres.

 

[JBee]

Exactly, I'm all for this feature being added, especially if it proves to be practically applied and not a party trick. I've gotten my truck into some goofy off-road situations that would have been easily remedied by a tank turn or being able to aim my butt better.

The other thing to remember is that the CT is being designed to be pretty autonomous for the most part. Having this level of control given to AP for things like parking, summon and normal driving will probably be insanely versatile.

Depending how the linkage and torque vectoring works a tank turn is totally possible, I'm really curious to the Tesla solution to that, if they even want to make it happen.

Sorry billygee, unless they make a quad motor you won't see a tank turn on the CT. The TM only has torque vectoring on the rear with one motor per wheel. Up the front theres only one motor. For tank turn one side of the vehicle must go backwards and the other side forwards, which you can only do with 4 motors, one on each wheel.

You don't need rear steering, or any steering for that matter to do a tank turn. Just either side spinning in opposite directions. Like the Rivian.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I am sure most of us were wanting to see the final design half a year ago. But now I am thinking that Tesla may have finalized most of the structural aspects of the CT and are allowing competitors to reveal their gimmicks while they still have the choice to add similar or better features and announce them as CT roll off the line.
For this reason, it would not surprise me if CT would allow backup power like the lightning, or a refrigerated frunk working off the octovalve heat pump.
On a debbie downer note: Watching the good progress in Austin and the casting machines it seems to me that it takes at least 4-6 months to get the foundation and casting machine set up once the casting machine shows up. While the front/rear castings appear ready for the end of the year for the model Y it does not appear like the front/rear castings for the CT will be ready this year or maybe next spring.
I would temper expectations for CT until at least Q2 next year.

Its been taking 2 months from receipt to test castings for virtually every casting machine, including, Fremont, Shanghai, Berlin, and Austin. Where do you get 4-6 months? If you said 4 months for 2 casting machines i might buy it. This doesn't change the possible reality in the timeline that you are proposing; it just challenges that particular value. If 4-wheel steering would essentially use the same casting front and rear Tesla would save a bundle.

After seeing the clips of people (Elon?) driving the CT over curbs, maybe some of us really do need 4-wheel steering. If this feature needs drive by wire and Tesla can swing it, that would be wonderful news in its own right.

 

[BillyGee]

Sorry billygee, unless they make a quad motor you won't see a tank turn on the CT. The TM only has torque vectoring on the rear with one motor per wheel. Up the front theres only one motor. For tank turn one side of the vehicle must go backwards and the other side forwards, which you can only do with 4 motors, one on each wheel.

You don't need rear steering, or any steering for that matter to do a tank turn. Just either side spinning in opposite directions. Like the Rivian.

If you can spin one wheel at a time with vectoring you can totally do it, even more easily if you can angle both wheels against each other.

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