Towing Capacity and Range?

charliemagpie

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Which brings into significance Tesla software monitoring the wind direction etc outside the vehicle. There will be a benefit to use driver assist / FSD to make sure speed etc. is optimised.


BTW, This thought might be weirder than my previous comments,.. A few years ago, they were talking about capacitors. I wonder if this will benefit Semi's and CT. There may be applications where a boost i.e. up a hill, to gain momentum would help ?

 

Ogre

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Thats actually true for any vehicle, but especially for efficient EVs that normally travel over 35kmh on smooth roads, simply because drag increases by the square of velocity. If you double the speed you quadruple the power required.
Sort of. Going 75-80 MPH in my Model Y I get about 220 miles effective range. If I’m driving 500 miles thats 2 stops and about 7 hours of driving. Time is 6:40 driving, ~0:40 spent charging) Driving 55 MPH can only shave 1 of those stops off the trip. So 9:00 driving 0:20 charging. Going fast is much quicker than going 55 MPH.

If I’m towing something and the trailer cuts that range in half, suddenly driving 75 MPH means I’m only getting 110 mile effective range. That is going to put as serious crimp in your trip.
 
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JBee

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Which brings into significance Tesla software monitoring the wind direction etc outside the vehicle. There will be a benefit to use driver assist / FSD to make sure speed etc. is optimised.


BTW, This thought might be weirder than my previous comments,.. A few years ago, they were talking about capacitors. I wonder if this will benefit Semi's and CT. There may be applications where a boost i.e. up a hill, to gain momentum would help ?
Capacitors have a fairly low energy density but have a high power density. That means you won't get much range out of them but you will get a short term performance boost. The best thing to use supercapacitors for is to smooth peak battery load, for example high acceleration or regen braking. This means the current is limited coming from the batteries, which in turn reduces cycle wear and increases available capacity.

This was once a conversation when Tesla bought Maxwell, who actually invented the dry electrolyte and some other 4680 manufacturing techniques, as well as a range of supercapacitors. The question is just how much extra power capacity is actually useful in most EV's. Teslas are notoriously fast already and don't lack up hill performance either just running on batteries alone. So adding capacitor might only make financial sense on either small battery capacity vehicles or high performance ones, where battery power capacity is not enough. In the case of the Roadster though, that is already traction limited, meaning more power wouldn't make it go faster anyway, because you can't get that power through the wheels without losing traction. Hence the whole SpaceX package cold thruster (compressed air) package.

If you seriously want to tow something with a EV I'm currently working on a aerodynamic collapsible box trailer with telescopic hitch, that should significantly reduce aero load, and seamlessly integrate solar to charge the CT. It will be modular, so you can buy it as you budget allows and install modules for either work or RV.
 

JBee

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Sort of. Going 75-80 MPH in my Model Y I get about 220 miles effective range. If I’m driving 500 miles thats 2 stops and about 7 hours of driving. Time is 6:40 driving, ~0:40 spent charging) Driving 55 MPH can only shave 1 of those stops off the trip. So 9:00 driving 0:20 charging. Going fast is much quicker than going 55 MPH. Also, I want to stop about

If I’m towing something and the trailer cuts that range in half, suddenly driving 75 MPH means I’m only getting 110 mile effective range. That is going to put as serious crimp in your trip.
Sorry, I was not factoring in the stops or charging speeds, rather only considering the rate of energy consumption whilst driving to achieve range.

If short trip times are the priority then obviously charge times also need to be factored in. Ideally they would overlap with breaks you would have anyway as to not add even more wasted time. In the end this type of EV vs ICE comparison might become mute as businesses figure out a way to keep us happy on pitstops so we don't even care if it takes a break or two more. In any case, faster recharge times and more charging stations will make it more favorable.
 


charliemagpie

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Capacitors have a fairly low energy density but have a high power density. That means you won't get much range out of them but you will get a short term performance boost. The best thing to use supercapacitors for is to smooth peak battery load, for example high acceleration or regen braking. This means the current is limited coming from the batteries, which in turn reduces cycle wear and increases available capacity.

This was once a conversation when Tesla bought Maxwell, who actually invented the dry electrolyte and some other 4680 manufacturing techniques, as well as a range of supercapacitors. The question is just how much extra power capacity is actually useful in most EV's. Teslas are notoriously fast already and don't lack up hill performance either just running on batteries alone. So adding capacitor might only make financial sense on either small battery capacity vehicles or high performance ones, where battery power capacity is not enough. In the case of the Roadster though, that is already traction limited, meaning more power wouldn't make it go faster anyway, because you can't get that power through the wheels without losing traction. Hence the whole SpaceX package cold thruster (compressed air) package.

If you seriously want to tow something with a EV I'm currently working on a aerodynamic collapsible box trailer with telescopic hitch, that should significantly reduce aero load, and seamlessly integrate solar to charge the CT. It will be modular, so you can buy it as you budget allows and install modules for either work or RV.
My brain went looking for a way to maybe use capacitors to start a momentum to maximise Regen. Not free energy, there may be many edge cases where the AI takes better advantage of the lay of the land. It's just a random thought.

Towing a caravan with a CT is no problem for me. As a retiree, I doubt if I would want to travel over 300 k is a day. Or in one sitting. Well within my pain threshold.
Would be a major pain for commercial. They would really like your plan.

I may be 2 years away.... I am going to build, and of course, all options should be considered. You forgot to mention : 'With a huge discount' lol
 

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Sorry, I was not factoring in the stops or charging speeds, rather only considering the rate of energy consumption whilst driving to achieve range.

If short trip times are the priority then obviously charge times also need to be factored in. Ideally they would overlap with breaks you would have anyway as to not add even more wasted time. In the end this type of EV vs ICE comparison might become mute as businesses figure out a way to keep us happy on pitstops so we don't even care if it takes a break or two more. In any case, faster recharge times and more charging stations will make it more favorable.
Again, your numbers are spot on. I’m just looking at the problem from a different angle.

For me, pit-stops about once every 3 hours works well for my bladder and stomach. So if you multiply your speed by 3 hours, you get the minimum range you need for frustration free driving. If driving fast means you are pulling over more frequently then it’s going to be frustrating. If driving slower doesn’t shave off needless stops then it’s wasting time.


Adding a trailer and the potential for stops which don’t support trailers or delays due to waiting for the correct stall means stops are even more frustrating and complicated. Avoiding a stop where you have to disconnect the trailer would be a huge win.
 
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Sort of. Going 75-80 MPH in my Model Y I get about 220 miles effective range. If I’m driving 500 miles thats 2 stops and about 7 hours of driving. Time is 6:40 driving, ~0:40 spent charging) Driving 55 MPH can only shave 1 of those stops off the trip. So 9:00 driving 0:20 charging. Going fast is much quicker than going 55 MPH.

If I’m towing something and the trailer cuts that range in half, suddenly driving 75 MPH means I’m only getting 110 mile effective range. That is going to put as serious crimp in your trip.
So the cybertruck (the tri-motor atleast) will have reportedly 200kwhs of battery capacity while the model y has 75. This is 2.66 times the capacity. So is it safe to assume that the cybertruck will then have a supposed capacity of 292.6 miles of effective range while towing? This is doable...resulting in fewer stops BUT because of the larger capacitywill it take longer to charge (1-2 hours?).
 

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So the cybertruck (the tri-motor atleast) will have reportedly 200kwhs of battery capacity while the model y has 75. This is 2.66 times the capacity. So is it safe to assume that the cybertruck will then have a supposed capacity of 292.6 miles of effective range while towing? This is doable...resulting in fewer stops BUT because of the larger capacitywill it take longer to charge (1-2 hours?).
Every EV I’ve seen towing big things has taken an absolutely massive hit to range. With a 7500 pound trailer, the Rivian takes a 60% range hit. I’ve seen similar numbers from people towing with the Model X. I would assume the Cybertruck’s range while towing big things will be less than half the base range.

On top of that you don’t usually charge above 80% when road tripping due to seriously slow charging from tapering (and doing it too often reduces battery life). That knocks another 100 miles off the range.

If I were planning a road trip with the Cybertruck pulling 7500 pound box trailer I would plan on stopping every 180 miles or so.

That’s all guesswork. We won’t know for sure until tires hit the road and people test drive it.
 

RMK!

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Sort of. Going 75-80 MPH in my Model Y I get about 220 miles effective range. If I’m driving 500 miles thats 2 stops and about 7 hours of driving. Time is 6:40 driving, ~0:40 spent charging) Driving 55 MPH can only shave 1 of those stops off the trip. So 9:00 driving 0:20 charging. Going fast is much quicker than going 55 MPH.

If I’m towing something and the trailer cuts that range in half, suddenly driving 75 MPH means I’m only getting 110 mile effective range. That is going to put as serious crimp in your trip.
Never pulled a trailer but that mileage is less than what I get driving with a hitch bike rack and two, 60 lb ebikes on board. Driving at freeway speed (avg 70 mph, moderate temp) 250 miles is an easy number to achieve. I usually charge to 90%+ before leaving home (Tesla Wall Charger) and approx 80% with on the road Supercharging.
 


Ogre

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Never pulled a trailer but that mileage is less than what I get driving with a hitch bike rack and two, 60 lb ebikes on board. Driving at freeway speed (avg 70 mph, moderate temp) 250 miles is an easy number to achieve.
I also usually drive with a bike rack which is why it’s so low. We might be on slightly different pages though. Thats a rough average of what I actually get between legs on a road trip. For example:

If I leave home with 100% charge I might get to a Supercharger 250 miles away (310 max less ~20% drag from the bikes). At that point I charge up to 80% and I’ll get maybe 200 miles or so before I have to stop again. (310 max * 80% charge - 20% range loss due to bikes = roughly 200 miles). The math matches my personal experience doing multiple long road trips as well.

Also, I tend to roll into Supercharger stops at 15-20% SOC. If you are comfortable running down to 5% SOC you can squeeze another ~20 miles out of a charge.

A trailer is likely not going to reduce that to 110 miles though unless it was particularly heavy and big for the car.
 
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I also usually drive with a bike rack which is why it’s so low. We might be on slightly different pages though. Thats a rough average of what I actually get between legs on a road trip. For example:

If I leave home with 100% charge I might get to a Supercharger 250 miles away (310 max less ~20% drag from the bikes). At that point I charge up to 80% and I’ll get maybe 200 miles or so before I have to stop again. (310 max * 80% charge - 20% range loss due to bikes = roughly 200 miles). The math matches my personal experience doing multiple long road trips as well.

Also, I tend to roll into Supercharger stops at 15-20% SOC. If you are comfortable running down to 5% SOC you can squeeze another ~20 miles out of a charge.

A trailer is likely not going to reduce that to 110 miles though unless it was particularly heavy and big for the car.
I'm looking at some that are ranging from 8000 lbs to 12000 lbs. which is definitely more than the single motor CT's capacity but less than the tri-motor.
 

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I also usually drive with a bike rack which is why it’s so low. We might be on slightly different pages though. Thats a rough average of what I actually get between legs on a road trip. For example:

If I leave home with 100% charge I might get to a Supercharger 250 miles away (310 max less ~20% drag from the bikes). At that point I charge up to 80% and I’ll get maybe 200 miles or so before I have to stop again. (310 max * 80% charge - 20% range loss due to bikes = roughly 200 miles). The math matches my personal experience doing multiple long road trips as well.

Also, I tend to roll into Supercharger stops at 15-20% SOC. If you are comfortable running down to 5% SOC you can squeeze another ~20 miles out of a charge.

A trailer is likely not going to reduce that to 110 miles though unless it was particularly heavy and big for the car.
Those are approximately the numbers I get as well. On longer trips with the wife I drive slower to keep her happy. By myself, I drive faster ... :)
 

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Won't know until the cybertruck comes out. Different battery pack than the rivian. 4680 cell will give a different range compared to Rivian. The rivian is also heavier then the cybertruck, from the reveal in 2019.
There's also new technology for RVs, to be more efficient like having their own battery packs that will help push along the road instead of being dead weight, all you have to worry about is the wind Factor.
 

JBee

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I also usually drive with a bike rack which is why it’s so low.
I hope that is a tow ball mounted bike rack behind you MY and not a roof mounted one?

 

 
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