Understanding The Exoskeleton / Body -- is there a frame underneath?

[CyberGus]

...There will be a supporting stamped piece attached to each door skin (the Outerpanels). The window and doorlock stuff will be between the two and the interior plastic bits will be attached to the stamped piece.

That's some fun speculation, but it flies in the face of what Tesla is aiming to achieve. Their exoskeleton patent application shows specifically that the doors will lack the interior structure of a traditional door, and instead be:

1. outer panel
2. inner panel
3. door module
4. glass

https://uspto.report/patent/app/20210155292#D00003

Tesla is all about making things simpler, but moving to an exoskeleton design and keeping all the traditional stamped pieces makes the design more complex, not less.

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[SSonnentag]

The topic is about whether there is a frame underneath (the body) and most of the discussion is ignoring the fact there is a frame underneath the exoskeleton and body. I'm not saying they're the same thing, I'm simply saying the CT has a structural frame under everything.

My understanding of frame vs structural body is:

With a frame (like a standard pickup truck), you can remove the body and have a rolling chassis that is capable of being loaded up with the maximum payload for the vehicle without any detrimental effects.

With a structural body, such as the CyberTruck is purported to come with, the cast structural members (frame) are NOT capable of supporting any weight, perhaps not even their own weight, without having the structural body installed above it. Think of it as a suspension bridge, they can hold a LOT of weight, but only with the tension structure (red) in place. Only with the CyberTruck, I believe the tension and compression components are reversed, with the tension being the subframe and the compression being in the bodywork. Take away either one of the components and it all crumbles.

 

[greggertruck]

I meant frame in the body, not under the truck. I know how casting works. I think we all do

Not an under frame. A body frame. What’s the bent steel attaching to inside the body

 

[SSonnentag]

I meant frame in the body, not under the truck. I know how casting works. I think we all do

Not an under frame. A body frame. What’s the bent steel attaching to inside the body

I get the impression the body will be mostly a boxed construction. There will likely be some minor (baffling?), (ribbing?), (corrugating?) structure inside some of the components to keep down warping due to high stress over long lengths of sheet metal, such as along the bed sides and sails. This would make it a very strong structure until something gets bent, then it caves, sort of like a paper towel tube... very strong until it isn't, then it's game over until its replaced.

 

[TyPope]

That's some fun speculation, but it flies in the face of what Tesla is aiming to achieve. Their exoskeleton patent application shows specifically that the doors will lack the interior structure of a traditional door, and instead be:

1. outer panel
2. inner panel
3. door module
4. glass

https://uspto.report/patent/app/20210155292#D00003

Tesla is all about making things simpler, but moving to an exoskeleton design and keeping all the traditional stamped pieces makes the design more complex, not less.

Wow. I had not seen that. My experience, obviously, is from more traditional manufacturing methods. I didn't realize that the exterior panel would be the ONLY metal in the door. I suppose if that bend in the door makes it strong enough for side impact, it'd be enough. I suppose they'll be gluing on the hinge support, latch support, window motor support, and interior door panel supports. I know the adhesives are good but didn't realize they were "hold the door open all day" good.

Neat. Thanks for researching that enough to show me that I was wrong. I stand corrected.

 

[Crissa]

The topic is about whether there is a frame underneath (the body) and most of the discussion is ignoring the fact there is a frame underneath the exoskeleton and body. I'm not saying they're the same thing, I'm simply saying the CT has a structural frame under everything.

There is not a frame under the exoskeleton. It is the exoskeleton. Yeah, there are bits that aren't a flat sheet, but exoskeletons aren't just flat sheets. They have ribs and shapes welded into the outer shell to give it strength.

In the Cybertruck, there will be bits for the doors to attach to, and the doors themselves will be boxes. And the Gigacasting is just a span from one side of the truck to the other - more akin to a Simpson Strong-Tie bracket than a frame.

-Crissa

 

[CyberGus]

Wow. I had not seen that. My experience, obviously, is from more traditional manufacturing methods. I didn't realize that the exterior panel would be the ONLY metal in the door. I suppose if that bend in the door makes it strong enough for side impact, it'd be enough. I suppose they'll be gluing on the hinge support, latch support, window motor support, and interior door panel supports. I know the adhesives are good but didn't realize they were "hold the door open all day" good.

Neat. Thanks for researching that enough to show me that I was wrong. I stand corrected.

Well, nobody really knows until Sandy gets his hands on one LOL but this sure is what Tesla is signaling. It will be interesting to see!

 

[greggertruck]

Well, nobody really knows until Sandy gets his hands on one LOL but this sure is what Tesla is signaling. It will be interesting to see!

Would like to think we know when the update on website/ pricing drops. But maybe they'll spare technicals to keep the competition quiet.

 

[Ogre]

Would like to think we know when the update on website/ pricing drops. But maybe they'll spare technicals to keep the competition quiet.

Possible, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Tesla often doesn’t dig into technical details for vehicles. If there is a big fancy Giga Rodeo type event for launch we might get some more details like this. Would be awesome to see an exploded Cybertruck the way they had the Model Y at Giga Rodeo.

 

[Deleted member 12457]

There is not a frame under the exoskeleton. It is the exoskeleton. Yeah, there are bits that aren't a flat sheet, but exoskeletons aren't just flat sheets. They have ribs and shapes welded into the outer shell to give it strength.

In the Cybertruck, there will be bits for the doors to attach to, and the doors themselves will be boxes. And the Gigacasting is just a span from one side of the truck to the other - more akin to a Simpson Strong-Tie bracket than a frame.

-Crissa

I disagree. The rear casting is going to be a very strong part of the support structure (frame) of the CT. It's not just a strap piece. I bet once the rear casting (holds the rear motor assembly, axles, wheels), structural battery and however the front assembly is built (front motor assembly, axles, wheels) are connected together, the CT platform will be able to be moved on its own without any exoskeleton or body panels. @SSonnentag disagrees with me on this as well showing an old style heavy truck frame. This is how I see Tesla building the CT, just doing it a different way. The exoskeleton and body provides the additional strength and protection for the entire truck but the motor, batteries and wheel/axles are supported entirely by the CT "frame." I don't see these major parts being directly connected to the exoskeleton.

 

[greggertruck]

Possible, but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Tesla often doesn’t dig into technical details for vehicles. If there is a big fancy Giga Rodeo type event for launch we might get some more details like this. Would be awesome to see an exploded Cybertruck the way they had the Model Y at Giga Rodeo.

Can you imagine how boring that'd be??! If it really is just folded steel, like... some wheels, rims, break system motor, maybe 4 if a quad. idk ha

 

[Ogre]

Can you imagine how boring that'd be??! If it really is just folded steel, like... some wheels, rims, break system motor, maybe 4 if a quad. idk ha

Actually at Cyber Rodeo they just had the rear end exploded not the whole car. The whole truck would be epic.

And disagree about the boring part. It would be fantastic.

 

[rr6013]

That's some fun speculation, but it flies in the face of what Tesla is aiming to achieve. Their exoskeleton patent application shows specifically that the doors will lack the interior structure of a traditional door, and instead be:

1. outer panel
2. inner panel
3. door module
4. glass

https://uspto.report/patent/app/20210155292#D00003

Tesla is all about making things simpler, but moving to an exoskeleton design and keeping all the traditional stamped pieces makes the design more complex, not less.

Simpler better:

[0029]/ …Because the exterior panel 502 is made from a durable material (e.g. steel, aluminum or other metals) there is no need for an interior anti-intrusion bar or other elements to protect the passengers from a side door strike found in conventional vehicle door assemblies like the door shown in FIG. 1 \\

Tesla is alluding to achieving structural integrity without use of an internal crash bar. Holy shit that’s so struct., a first post-modern implementation, that.

[0033]
/In some embodiments, the monolithic metal sheet is in the shape of a door panel. In some embodiments, the monolithic metal sheet is in the shape of an external portion of a frame. In some embodiments, the initial monolithic metal sheet is a rolled metal sheet. In some embodiments, the monolithic metal sheet is not heat treated…\\

Tesla is writing in the generic case for Patent examiners that doors are metal sheet, further bent metal then go on to allow that they function as an external frame in one instance, in the very next embodiment the metallurgy varies depending…

Everything outside of the claims is narrative. It needn’t be accurate only true. It is written in a way as an aid to the examiner reviewing the application to cause least confusion most clarity.

BUT the application is judged on its claims. And only on those claims. Claims need be true and accurate,

CLAIMS
1. A vehicle having a vehicle frame, wherein the vehicle comprises: an exterior panel formed from a monolithic metal sheet and attached to an exterior portion of the vehicle frame; and at least one component directly attached to the exterior panel, wherein the exterior panel bears the load of the at least one component, and wherein the exterior panel does not comprise an additional support structure.

BOOM very first order of import “ a frame”! A whole frickin ‘ vehicle. It is comprised of exterior frame and portions, component(s) comprising exterior panel that does not provide additional support structure.

Tesla are claiming in the strictest a vehicle frame, exterior panel sheet metal bearing load of a component(s). Nice tight starting point with zero confusion what is being claimed. No anamorphic descriptors like exoskeleton to limit the breadth of patent.

 

[Crissa]

I disagree. The rear casting is going to be a very strong part of the support structure...

...Do you know what a Simpson Strong-Tie is? It's right in the name. And yet it's not a frame for the house.

-Crissa

 

[charliemagpie]

They could inject that pink stuff they use for the battery pack.

Perhaps patch plastic sheeting to the inside of the panels , to mold the foam into place.

It could possibly float, stop water ingress, and add structural strength.

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