SpaceDoc

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They are already very profitable. Every company wants to maximize profit. Tesla didn’t get to where it was because they aimed to be profitable. That’s aging Elon talking. They got where they were by breaking molds and building cool shit like the CT. They get in a rut of focusing on profits and they lose the edge. It’s easy for successful companies to do and the Tesla ownership deserves to let the big machine they built just be on cruise control for a while for sure. Every leader hopes to see what they built become sustainable and profitable but that’s not the Tesla the world has grown to admire. That’s a plateau. That’s where Ford has been for 50 years and it’s depressing.
Profitability has always been a goal of Tesla. It's interesting to read comments like this that are lacking the big picture. A company runs on PROFITS, not rainbows and unicorns. Go read a biography of Musk if you want a better picture of where he is coming from. It will be well worth your time.
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RMK!

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Profitability has always been a goal of Tesla. It's interesting to read comments like this that are lacking the big picture. A company runs on PROFITS, not rainbows and unicorns. Go read a biography of Musk if you want a better picture of where he is coming from. It will be well worth your time.
It's a profit deal ...
 

Ogre

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Profitability has always been a goal of Tesla. It's interesting to read comments like this that are lacking the big picture. A company runs on PROFITS, not rainbows and unicorns. Go read a biography of Musk if you want a better picture of where he is coming from. It will be well worth your time.
Tesla has from the very first days ”to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible.”

Lots of evidence that Tesla employees at every level believe this mission is their goal and not just lip service. Tesla has made environmentally conscious decisions in a lot of cases where it’s meant doing things in a significantly less profitable way. Just a few examples: Developing a cobalt free cell, building their own environmentally friendly lithium mining, nickel production, developing new ways of processing raw materials to eliminate toxic by-products.

Musk has a weird gift for turning altruistic ideas into hugely profitable ventures. SpaceX is simultaneously Musk’s effort to make us multi-planetary, and hugely profitable. Right now SpaceX is working hard to get internet restored to Tonga as quickly as possible.

But you are right about one thing… profit is always there.
 

HaulingAss

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But you are right about one thing… profit is always there.
Profit is often a measure of how much value a company offers to society. It's not the final arbitor of value but it's often a good proxy, especially when it comes to manufacturing. If people are willing to pay you more for something than it costs to make, you are probably doing it right.

This is where legacy auto has lost its way. It's sells rather mediocre crap for far too much money. They have stopped striving to make their products better and easier to make so more people can easily afford them. As it turns out, this was probably a good thing for humanity that ICE cars had not become increasingly cheaper to make and purchase because we have too many of them. Now we need a lot of EV's in a hurry so it's a good thing Musk and Co. are stepping up to the plate and innovating like crazy to make that happen. Legacy auto is going to struggle to make EV's at compelling price points. Which is why they will continue to sell EV's in numbers that impress no one.

No one who can see what is going on here is worried that Ford will be first to market with an EV pickup truck. First to market doesn't matter - what matters is value to the consumer. That's what drives sales, not who had the first one at any price.
 

Ogre

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Profit is often a measure of how much value a company offers to society. It's not the final arbitor of value but it's often a good proxy, especially when it comes to manufacturing. If people are willing to pay you more for something than it costs to make, you are probably doing it right.
Yep. Can measure a lot of things. How much more/ less people enjoy your product. How much more reliable people perceive your product is. What the resale value people think your product will command.

There is another side though. It also measures efficiency. How much better you are at making a thing. How much better you are at finding source materials. Or more recently: How much better are you at adapting to the rapidly changing supply chain.

Tesla is great at both sides of this. They make products people love, they have fantastic resale value, and Tesla makes them for less than their competitors. So they sip from both straws. They cut costs and they charge a premium.

No one who can see what is going on here is worried that Ford will be first to market with an EV pickup truck. First to market doesn't matter - what matters is value to the consumer. That's what drives sales, not who had the first one at any price.
Ford has some fantastic features which people will love. I’m not sure Tesla will do something as nice as the power lift frunk Ford has done. Their home power setup is pretty damned cool too.

Rivian also has a nice truck with lots of cool features.

But I totally agree that being to market with a few thousand trucks in 2022 won’t make a ton of difference one way or the other. I’m confident the Cybertruck will kick some serious ass when it comes out. …. Eventually. :cry:
 


alan auerbach

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Yep. Can measure a lot of things. How much more/ less people enjoy your product. How much more reliable people perceive your product is. What the resale value people think your product will command.

There is another side though. It also measures efficiency. How much better you are at making a thing. How much better you are at finding source materials. Or more recently: How much better are you at adapting to the rapidly changing supply chain.

Tesla is great at both sides of this. They make products people love, they have fantastic resale value, and Tesla makes them for less than their competitors. So they sip from both straws. They cut costs and they charge a premium.



Ford has some fantastic features which people will love. I’m not sure Tesla will do something as nice as the power lift frunk Ford has done. Their home power setup is pretty damned cool too.

Rivian also has a nice truck with lots of cool features.

But I totally agree that. I’m confident the Cybertruck will kick some serious ass when it comes out. …. Eventually. :cry:
"... being to market with a few thousand trucks in 2022 won’t make a ton of difference one way or the other."

No, each of those first few thousand will act like 100 of them in terms of publicity. We will read of early owners being offered double. Of automotive journalists offering huge sums to borrow it for a few days. Of their being seen on the road causing traffic jams. (When I say "we" I mean those who have not died of old age.)
 

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"... being to market with a few thousand trucks in 2022 won’t make a ton of difference one way or the other."

No, each of those first few thousand will act like 100 of them in terms of publicity. We will read of early owners being offered double. Of automotive journalists offering huge sums to borrow it for a few days. Of their being seen on the road causing traffic jams. (When I say "we" I mean those who have not died of old age.)
Eh.

Look at Rivian right now. They had a huge media fest prior to launch. Not many stories the media can run that haven’t already run on them. I’m sure there will be a few more “Long Term” stories out there, but ultimately the R1T is now already old-news.

The Lightning will be no different. It’ll get 3-4 months of hoo hah, a little media parade. Journalists will slaver praise on it. We’ll bitch about it. Then it’ll fade to background noise.

If Ford or Rivian were able to produce enough vehicles to take advantage of that early surge, maybe things would be different. But right now both have long rolls of pre-orders and by the time we get to the end of those rolls, the Cybertruck and the Silverado will be on the road and the Silverado at least will have it’s moment in the sun with the media.

Of course when the Cybertruck gets launched the media will just complain about how late it is. But half a million pre-orders later, people will have seen it in person and formed their own opinions.
 

Sirfun

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Eh.

Look at Rivian right now. They had a huge media fest prior to launch. Not many stories the media can run that haven’t already run on them. I’m sure there will be a few more “Long Term” stories out there, but ultimately the R1T is now already old-news.

The Lightning will be no different. It’ll get 3-4 months of hoo hah, a little media parade. Journalists will slaver praise on it. We’ll bitch about it. Then it’ll fade to background noise.

If Ford or Rivian were able to produce enough vehicles to take advantage of that early surge, maybe things would be different. But right now both have long rolls of pre-orders and by the time we get to the end of those rolls, the Cybertruck and the Silverado will be on the road and the Silverado at least will have it’s moment in the sun with the media.

Of course when the Cybertruck gets launched the media will just complain about how late it is. But half a million pre-orders later, people will have seen it in person and formed their own opinions.
Speaking of Rivian, last week when I was driving our family on vacation I got passed by r1t and I had my son snap this photo. So yes they are out there. Also of note, I didn't even notice it was following a Tesla until I looked at the photo.

Tesla Cybertruck Update from Elon: Cybertruck production starting late 2022 and volume production in 2023 IMG_20220216_100913
 

happy intruder

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Musk is pretty much damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t at this point.

If he says “We will start production in 2023” and they don’t, then he’s a liar regardless of whether WW III breaks out; the country is struck with an epidemic; or there is a massive supply chain crises.

So instead he says “We hope to start production in 2023, it’s most likely”… and people say “Tesla delays Cybertruck until 2057”.

Literally nothing he can say which won’t be over-analyzed. They are shooting for 2023. If events get in the way, then they won’t hit it.

I know this sucks for you, hopefully it ends up coming on time.
the Aptera is looking better and better along with the Y
 


happy intruder

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Speaking of Rivian, last week when I was driving our family on vacation I got passed by r1t and I had my son snap this photo. So yes they are out there. Also of note, I didn't even notice it was following a Tesla until I looked at the photo.

IMG_20220216_100913.jpg
yea, he's drafting on the Tesla......
 

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Profitability has always been a goal of Tesla. It's interesting to read comments like this that are lacking the big pictur PROFITS, not rainbows and unicorns. Go read a biography of Musk if you want a better
They are building the CT production line.

You say they are building the CT production line. I say they are not and instead are focusing on ramping up the Model Y production. I have no facts, just my speculation. So far, as of today, there are no Model Ys leaving that factory and going straight into customers hands. I am guessing they want to do that first. It should start happening soon. Then they can work on increasing production volume for the Model Y.

Plus you don't finish out your production line for the Cybertruck until after you have finished engineering the vehicle. I think they have some more tweaking to go...especially to figure out how to build it in a more affordable manner. I am sure Tesla could build it next month....but it might cost $100,000. Let's hope they make progress. As Elon said "HOPEFULLY we can start production in 2023". I hope it doesn't get delayed again and that production (not beta versions) can start in 2023.
January 27th 2021. “CT design and engineering complete”Link
 

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Implementation is its own problem beyond design.

-Crissa
This is true. I am working currently on taking about $500M from design to implementation and the reality is that usually it’s money that stops the flow. I think Elon got burned by growth and has lived a stressful decade getting Tesla on its feet and he is tired. He wants to let the machine run and be profitable otherwise he would say what’s another year flirting with the red ink. Let’s build the CT. He has plenty of money.
I have to imagine that they are starting to build out the production line. They can blame the chips all day and be justified but that shouldn’t stop them building the line.

come end of this year if we don’t see progress on the line, I am giving up hope.
 

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Tesla, unlike Amazon, was hounded to be profitable. Profits now allow them to build bigger factories. Most things. Which is why they're doing it.

But remember now that Elon was telling Tesla workers not just to focus on numbers but efficiency, to not overwork themselves. That dash into profitability was a sprint, one the company no longer has to prove. Now they're in an arc. They have only to pace, to wait for the factories, the networks, the systems they're working for to come to fruition.

Elon has proven that Tesla can. But he still wants to do things.

The thing is, it's easy to get distracted by things, worries, scammers, when you become a target like he has. He has to depend upon others so intently now. It's easy to want to do good, but telling people to do good isn't enough.

-Crissa
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