Using a Model Y (or 3) as a "self-powered trailer"

[Antonius]

In recent months, a number of companies (thor, lightship, etc) have been rolling out these trailer concepts that have onboard batteries and motors, so they are self-powered, to a degree, in order to reduce the power use of the towing vehicle. I really like these concepts, but the cost is high. When looking at and considering this, I am highly cognizant of the fact that I already own a Model Y and I've got an early reservation for the Cybertruck, so buying a self-powered trailer effectively means shelling out for a third EV's worth of batteries and motors.

That's when this idea occurred to me: the Model Y has lots of storage space, even moreso if it doesn't have a passenger or even a driver in it. So, is there any way that I could use my Model Y as a self powered trailer?

Some of the pros, cons and other thoughts as I toyed with this concept:

• The biggest advantage is that I already own the Model Y, no need to buy another 50-70kWh worth of batteries packaged up in a different form factor; probably the biggest advantage of this concept for most of you all reading this
• Second biggest advantage is that the Model Y is still a separate vehicle that can be driven around independently. Provides a ton of flexibility, especially if you're doing something like traveling with family, going camping, etc.
• A big con is that you'd only use the model Y to transport relatively clean, smaller goods. You obviously wouldn't want to load up your Model Y with compost, gravel or other bulk materials like that. But home goods, groceries, clothes, camping gear, electronics that sort of stuff would pack well.
• The model Y is obviously heavier than any given trailer but it is much more aerodynamic. Given that, I believe that the combination of Cybertruck + Model Y will use less total energy for moving around than the combination of Cybertruck + any trailer with a similar cargo capacity. I don't have any models to prove this so I could be wrong. This is just a reflection of my intuition.

Now, how would this actually work ? Well, there's three approaches, really two though if you think about it:

• Caravan - just put another driver in the Model Y. Works, doable today, but you're not really using the vehicle as a trailer. Besides, if I'm traveling cross country with my wife I would want to be in the cabin as her, so we can talk and enjoy our time together. Her driving a separate vehicle behind absolutely detracts from the experience.
• FSD Convoy Mode - Depending on what you believe (or how faithful you are) we're anywhere from five to eighteen months away from "feature complete" FSD, which should include a "convoy" or "follow that car" mode. This is an elegant solution, one that many of us have already paid for (at least, I have), but it it does have two downsides. For one, it might not be obvious to everyone else on the highway that the Model Y is part of your convoy. No physical connection between the vehicles means that people can cut in between you, etc. For two, the follow distance between the Model Y and the CT means that there's not as much drafting so there could be more aerodynamic resistance.
• "Flat Towing" the Model Y with a physical tether - IMO this would be the best approach. As we all know, the tesla owner's manual says that these vehicles should not be flat towed because risk of overheating the motors but we would not be engaged in a typical flat tow, with the towed vehicle riding in Neutral. Instead, the Model Y would be synced or slaved to the CT, so that its acceleration, regenerative braking and friction braking are all matched up. The Model Y would be drafting behind the CT so this would be best for aero, and this would most resemble the "self powered trailer" concepts out there. How to make it work though is a tough question. Would you want a cable to transfer the data/commands between vehicles, or could that be done through bluetooth or other wireless connection? Also, who would develop this, and how would it be developed? I highly doubt that Tesla would make the time to develop a "being towed mode" because it is a very niche application. Would a third party developer have access to the software tools necessary to do it? My intuition says no, so it's likely that the "best version" of the Model Y trailer concept will remain out of reach...

My ultimate goal is to live nomadically and partly off grid after getting my Cybertruck. I'm hopeful that Cyberlandr will be able to deliver on all of the cool features and concepts they've advertised and that will be a core part of what enables this. With the Cyberlandr serving as my mobile bedroom, bathroom and kitchen, I'd use the cargo room in the Model Y to hold extra clothes, camping gear, some lightweight furniture and a large bell tent that I would use a lounge/"living room" space.

Curious what you all think of this concept.

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[fhteagle]

There's some yay and some meh in your ideas. I need to head out the door but I'll expand on my reaction after today's road trip.

For now, I'll just ask have you seen what James Klafehn has done in this regard?

 

[firsttruck]

......
I'll just ask have you seen what James Klafehn has done in this regard?

Interesting


James Klafehn calls his range extending trailer "T-Rex"

He has used it will several tow vehicles
2014 Toyota RAV4 EV (full BEV)
Toyota RAV4 Prime plugin hybrid
Tesla Model S
Tesla Model X
Ford Lightning EV


James Klafehn - T-Rex - The Tesla Range Extending Trailer
https://www.youtube.com/@JamesKlafehn/search?query=t-rex


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Introducing T-Rex V2. The Tesla Range Extending Trailer
Day of light, what an idiot. lol Light of day makes more sense. This is my Tesla range extending camper build. I call it the T-Rex Camper. It uses a Tesla 85kwh battery pack with an aluminum trailer built around it and a foamie fiberglass camper built on top of it all. It will extend the range of my 2014 Toyota (Tesla) Rav4 EV AND provide energy storage for my off grid home. Pretty cool stuff! In late 2019 I bought a Tesla Model X and using the T-Rex enabled me to drive 550 miles. (at the time the Model X could only do around 300 miles by itself so it was a huge improvement)
Nov 19, 2018
James Klafehn

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T-Rex Range Extending Camper is BACK!
I'm wiping the dust off and getting the camper out for 2023. I already have my 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning wired and ready for it, just need to clean up the camper so we can hit the road for some testing. How many miles do you think I will get on a charge?
Jun 1, 2023
James Klafehn

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15 Things that are BROKEN on my 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning
To be clear, I still love the truck! I wouldn't trade it for anything. I just wish it was perfect.
Mar 29, 2023
James Klafehn

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[Antonius]

There's some yay and some meh in your ideas. I need to head out the door but I'll expand on my reaction after today's road trip.

For now, I'll just ask have you seen what James Klafehn has done in this regard?

No I hadn't seen his projects yet, but after seeing firsttruck's postings I will start looking into it.

 

[cvalue13]

15 Things that are BROKEN on my 2022 Ford F-150 Lightning
To be clear, I still love the truck! I wouldn't trade it for anything. I just wish it was perfect.
Mar 29, 2023
James Klafehn

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curious to see his list I started the video.

the very first item is him trying to use the fob and buttons to close the Frunk, with his young son sitting inside the Frunk, but it keeps beeping at him

meanwhile his young, sitting inside the Frunk, is playing with the emergency button that opens the Frunk from inside in case of emergencies

which disables the frunk from closing absent manual intervention

at which point I stopped watching

 

[JBee]

If you really need the extra cargo space for "clean" cargo like clothes etc, why not use a rear luggage carrier attached to the tow hitch. There are EV specific ones from Thule now that actually improve range because of aerodynamics. No batteries required. That should nearly be as big as the MY boot and you don't put miles on your MY with wear and tear.

Also, if it's only two of you travelling, you can flip up the back seat of the CT and put heaps in there. Costs nothing.

But even better, just don't get a Cyberlandr. Get a Spacecamper instead, because then you can use most of the bed for storage. Overall the Cyberlandr design is an engineering nightmare, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's vapourware because what they propose is not achievable.

Either way leave your MY at home. If you really need another vehicle on site grab an ebike or two.

 

[Crissa]

The CyberLandr isn't meant to be lived in. It's supposed to be an extra room; an office, a changing room, maybe a tent, maybe a kitchen. It's not going to be all of these at once, just one, so even if they manage to make it be at all - and they have a huge undertaking to go on - you won't want to tow with it.

Aside from the fact that there's no way currently to long distance tow a Tesla other than putting it atop a flatbed, towing will just remove any advantage you get from the CyberLandr collapsing.

-Crissa

 

[firsttruck]

curious to see his list I started the video.

the very first item is him trying to use the fob and buttons to close the Frunk, with his young son sitting inside the Frunk, but it keeps beeping at him

meanwhile his young, sitting inside the Frunk, is playing with the emergency button that opens the Frunk from inside in case of emergencies

which disables the frunk from closing absent manual intervention

at which point I stopped watching

That is not the worst thing I saw in one of his videos.

In another video the guy is working in the hatch back area of the RAV4 where he hooks up an 2/4KW DC-AC inverter to RAV4's 12V battery while his son is also in the hatch back area sitting right next to the exposed battery terminals (negative & positive). His son has metal objects in his hand and there are additional metal tools next to his son and the father just walks away to the front of the car to check something just leaving his son in a dangerous environment (direct shorts of 12V car battery are not only scary but can cause burns and worse - battery explosion). At the time the father walks away the boy actual has a metal object in his hand and other metal objects are easily within the boy's reach ( one being a crescent wrench that could easily bridge the gap between the terminals).

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video cued to boy in dangerous situation

EMERGENCY! Can My 2021 Toyota Rav4 Prime Save the Day???
Aug 22, 2021
James Klafehn


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[fhteagle]

Yeah I definitely was in too much of a rush yesterday and forgot my boilerplate do not use Klafehn as an example of how to do things safely. The putting his kids in danger is definitely a no bueno situation.

But some of the things that need considering with your plan that have gotten into my head because of watching his DIY projects and how they could have gone wrong:

- If you are wanting to plug in once and charge both vehicles the way JK does, you have to consider voltage and to a certain extent capacity match between towing and towed vehicle. I don't think he actually uses a current limiter in his connections between the two vehicles, but that would be a must in any of my designs.
- BMS operational on towed vehicle?
- Thermal management on towed vehicle?
- If you intend for the towed vehicle to reduce it's towing force load, how are you going to control acceleration and braking from the towing vehicle? Bluetooth is right out in my book, not stable enough connection for safety critical purposes. Towing vehicle message intercept and inject to towed vehicle.... Maybe, I don't have enough tech specs to say either way. Some of the trailers are trying to use a force plate to measure what the towing vehicle wants, which... Also gives me the heebeegeebees as a nasty point of failure possibility.

I'd say start over thinking this through from first principles, what functions do you really need. "Because I already have it" might really lead you down the wrong rabbit hole. Selling the Y and applying that money to buying or building what you really actually need might get you something better fit for your purposes.

 

[israndy]

It would be GREAT if the 3/Y could be made to trailer behind another vehicle. I really wanna bring my Tesla to the East Coast, but I don't wanna sleep in it the whole way, so hooking it to my RV would allow me to have a bed to sleep in but when I get across the country I can park my RV and then to touring around in my Tesla. Sure, I can flatbed the Tesla but it has wheels already and would require one less license plate to just tow directly. If it could be turned on and help push when accelerating and regen when slowing it should be fine to put a base plate on a Tesla but it's gonna need some software like mentioned above

I tried watching the videos about T-Rex, but that guy is HORRIBLE

 

[CyberGus]

direct shorts of 12V car battery are not only scary but can cause burns and worse - battery explosion

Once I was elbows-deep in an engine compartment when I set down my wrench on a random spot ...which happened to be across the battery terminals.

I found the wrench about 50 feet away after I changed my pants

 

[Antonius]

If you really need the extra cargo space for "clean" cargo like clothes etc, why not use a rear luggage carrier attached to the tow hitch. There are EV specific ones from Thule now that actually improve range because of aerodynamics. No batteries required. That should nearly be as big as the MY boot and you don't put miles on your MY with wear and tear.

Yeah, i've been looking into hitch cargo carriers for a while now, to use for the current road trips we take with our Model Y right now.

Also, if it's only two of you travelling, you can flip up the back seat of the CT and put heaps in there. Costs nothing.

This is a good point, but hard to assess how much of our stuff we'd really be able to fit just in the backseat and frunk of the Cybertruck.

But even better, just don't get a Cyberlandr. Get a Spacecamper instead, because then you can use most of the bed for storage. Overall the Cyberlandr design is an engineering nightmare, and it wouldn't surprise me if it's vapourware because what they propose is not achievable.

I'm not an engineer, so I can't comment on whether or not the Cyberlandr is an "engineering nightmare" or not; all I know is that what they've proposed has all the features that would work for me and my wife; the Spacecamper does not. That said, if they cannot deliver on those features, then obviously I won't be buying their product and I'll have to come up with a different plan.

For now, I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt until they unveil the product.

They will be at Tesla Takeover in SLO next weekend, so I'm going to meet Lance, the rest of their team in person and learn more about their progress.

Either way leave your MY at home. If you really need another vehicle on site grab an ebike or two.

As I said, the goal is to live nomadically. So there won't be a "home" to leave the MY at.

 

[Antonius]

The CyberLandr isn't meant to be lived in. It's supposed to be an extra room; an office, a changing room, maybe a tent, maybe a kitchen. It's not going to be all of these at once, just one, so even if they manage to make it be at all - and they have a huge undertaking to go on - you won't want to tow with it.

I foresee most of the use of the Cyberlandr as a bathroom/shower and for food storage, maybe some food prep space.

Most of the actual living and sleeping space would be provided by a large bell tent, something like this --

What I envision is setting up to stay at a hipcamp or wwoof for anywhere from 1-3 months then packing up and moving on to the next spot, as nomads have done, for generations.

it's mostly the stuff in the tent--lightweight, modular furniture, Clothes/clothesracks, etc that I see taking up space in the Model Y when it's been loaded up.

Aside from the fact that there's no way currently to long distance tow a Tesla other than putting it atop a flatbed, towing will just remove any advantage you get from the CyberLandr collapsing.

I feel like I addressed this in the original post already ?
Anyways, Convoy Mode with feature-complete FSD is the most likely solution.

 

[Antonius]

But some of the things that need considering with your plan that have gotten into my head because of watching his DIY projects and how they could have gone wrong:

- If you are wanting to plug in once and charge both vehicles the way JK does, you have to consider voltage and to a certain extent capacity match between towing and towed vehicle. I don't think he actually uses a current limiter in his connections between the two vehicles, but that would be a must in any of my designs.
- BMS operational on towed vehicle?
- Thermal management on towed vehicle?
- If you intend for the towed vehicle to reduce it's towing force load, how are you going to control acceleration and braking from the towing vehicle? Bluetooth is right out in my book, not stable enough connection for safety critical purposes. Towing vehicle message intercept and inject to towed vehicle.... Maybe, I don't have enough tech specs to say either way. Some of the trailers are trying to use a force plate to measure what the towing vehicle wants, which... Also gives me the heebeegeebees as a nasty point of failure possibility.

I'll be honest, the answers to these questions from my end are a whole lot of "I don't know"

I certainly don't have any expertise in how to actually develop the towing system, I was just sharing an idea I had, wondering if anyone else had thought of the same thing.

that said, the most likely answer is feature complete FSD with Convoy Mode. By the time I actually get my CT in fifteen months or so, it will probably be released.

I'd say start over thinking this through from first principles, what functions do you really need. "Because I already have it" might really lead you down the wrong rabbit hole. Selling the Y and applying that money to buying or building what you really actually need might get you something better fit for your purposes.

I don't really see selling the Model Y either way because I think we will always need two vehicles, for all the reasons we need and use two vehicles now.

My thinking here is just about flexing the functionality of that Model Y.

 

[Antonius]

It would be GREAT if the 3/Y could be made to trailer behind another vehicle. I really wanna bring my Tesla to the East Coast, but I don't wanna sleep in it the whole way, so hooking it to my RV would allow me to have a bed to sleep in but when I get across the country I can park my RV and then to touring around in my Tesla. Sure, I can flatbed the Tesla but it has wheels already and would require one less license plate to just tow directly. If it could be turned on and help push when accelerating and regen when slowing it should be fine to put a base plate on a Tesla but it's gonna need some software like mentioned above

Yeah, even if Tesla or a third party is able to develop some kind of software to unlock flat towing a 3/Y, i think the towing vehicle will probably have to also be a Tesla; the two vehicles would speak the same language and be easier to sync on matched accleration/braking.

I have a harder time imagining how that would work if the towing vehicle were a typical ICE vehicle or an RV like you are saying here.

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