ricinro

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Musk is opposed to subsidies. He thinks that proven "capital allocators" like himself should be handling our tax dollars. A typical libertarian position.
He does want educated employees and better infrastructure for the vehicles he sells, perhaps more tunnels... oh yes, and more govt spending on rockets to go to mars.

I look forward to his upcoming budget plan for the US economy. It will be refreshing that we won't have Congress bickering when a handful of corporations can relieve America of that responsibility.
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ricinro

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Musk is opposed to subsidies. He thinks that proven "capital allocators" like himself should be handling our tax dollars. A typical libertarian position.
He does want educated employees and better infrastructure for the vehicles he sells, perhaps more tunnels... oh yes, and more govt spending on rockets to go to mars.

I look forward to his upcoming budget plan for the US economy. It will be refreshing that we won't have Congress bickering when a handful of corporations can relieve America of that responsibility.
I hope I wasn't coming across as sarcastic. I doubt that Elon has comprehensive plan for our economy but speaks for his own self-interest. Subsidies for his competitors is not in his interest.
 

Macgreiner

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I agree with him. Cancel all EV, Charger and oil industry subsidies.

EV is already showing the demand is there. Oil is on the way out and they are making billions without even paying fair prices for oil and gas leases on federal property. \\No more corporate welfare.
I'm all for killing oil subsidies. Elon is wrong about the bill though. Try walking under your favorite bridge with a structural/civil engineer. It is frightening how we have let our infrastructure rot with the hopes it will all be ok.
 

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I'm all for killing oil subsidies. Elon is wrong about the bill though. Try walking under your favorite bridge with a structural/civil engineer. It is frightening how we have let our infrastructure rot with the hopes it will all be ok.
Same for child care. How can people complain that more people are opting out of the economy - or out of having children - if we don't make allowances to make sure childcare isn't an undue burden on young families?

This is exactly something Elon has complained about and it's a little hypocritical of him to say not pass it at this point.

-Crissa
 

Ogre

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I'm all for killing oil subsidies. Elon is wrong about the bill though. Try walking under your favorite bridge with a structural/civil engineer. It is frightening how we have let our infrastructure rot with the hopes it will all be ok.
I lost track of what was in the original infrastructure bill and what’s in the BBB so I can’t say. I don’t think Musk was against the infrastructure bill either.

Musk was definitely for spending on actual infrastructure “Roads and Airports” were what he mentioned were legit ways for the government to spend money.

Honestly, Musk‘s politics is quite weird. I agree with some of it and some of it really seems pretty bad.
 

A.W.Jelfs

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Hi all
Elon is right about America's debt.
One day the debt chickens are going to come home and roost.
Trillions of dollars are added every year which is a almighty debt bubble.
Who is going to pay it off?
Any company which had debt like this would have gone bankrupt years ago.
America needs a tax restructure along with high inflation and a large GST to make any headway into this debt which would lead to a AAA credit rating like Australia's.
Have a good day all.
 

braddibbnd

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Or maybe the government should subsidize taking the ICE vehicles off the road. As we transition to EVs, the ICE vehicles will be worth next to nothing. The lower and middle income folks that delay on switching will be hit hardest as their second most valuable asset becomes worthless.
Didn't mind the richer European models in Europe losing much of their value as people realized that a $100-150,000 performace vehicle couldn't touch a Model 3 for $60,000.
 

ricinro

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Or maybe the government should subsidize taking the ICE vehicles off the road. As we transition to EVs, the ICE vehicles will be worth next to nothing. The lower and middle income folks that delay on switching will be hit hardest as their second most valuable asset becomes worthless.
Didn't mind the richer European models in Europe losing much of their value as people realized that a $100-150,000 performace vehicle couldn't touch a Model 3 for $60,000.
cash for ICE klunkers... People are buying new ICE vehicles now that will be hard to sell in 5-10 years and then with less ICE vehicles on the road there will be less gas stations, etc. as the dominos fall.
Oh there will be great gnashing of teeth!
But I agree that this will hurt lower and middle income folks the most- especially the ones who are anti-EV and will continue to reject necessary change.
Currently there really isn't any decent low cost EV as an option for people to buy.
This is why the 25k Tesla and similar offerings (probably Chinese) will be their option. But realistically any BBB incentive should only be for American assembled with American made components and offer the union incentive for companies whose employees chose not to be union and have competitive compensation.
 

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Hi all
Elon is right about America's debt.
The US's 'debt rating' is meaningless.

How would these chickens come home to roost?

Did they come home to roost in the 30s and 40s?

That's just ridiculous. What was your debt to income ratio when bought a home? Assuming you bought in the last thirty years and aren't a boomer who benefitted from a massive increase in available housing and spending.

And not even part of the conversation here.

-Crissa
 

A.W.Jelfs

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The US's 'debt rating' is meaningless.

How would these chickens come home to roost?

Did they come home to roost in the 30s and 40s?

That's just ridiculous. What was your debt to income ratio when bought a home? Assuming you bought in the last thirty years and aren't a boomer who benefitted from a massive increase in available housing and spending.

And not even part of the conversation here.

-Crissa
So its ridiculous to pay back debt? You just keep letting it balloon keep those money printing presses rolling until the ink runs dry. Keep lending money off the Chinese, sooner or later inflation will start to burn and the US dollar wont be worth Squat. Credit ratings mean how much interest you pay on your debt, the interest on a trillion dollars dropping by a percent is substantial.
You can keep burying your head in the sand if you want to but you country is not run very well at all.
Here in Australia we spend less per head on healthcare but it is much better than yours you cannot compare them. Everyone is covered including the poor and homeless. Crissa in the 30s and 40s wealthy people where paying up to 90% tax rate.
Housing prices have nothing to do with national debt and yes they are high here but we have over a trillion dollars in Super Schemes.
We also do not pay Tips of any description because people over here make a fair wage and don't have to work three jobs.'
We also have unemployment benefits and are not left on the scrapheap hoping for food stamps.
We also have no gun violence, no massacres, no semi automatics.
 

GnarlyDudeLive

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...And we need to pay for that production increase. The EV incentives do that. That make sure those factories will pay off, and the cars get into American hands.

Not just those lucky and rich enough to grab the first 200k.

-Crissa

Currently, With likely well over 1.5-2million EV's already in preorder the persuasion to purchase already exists WITHOUT the EV rebates. Those are all preorder/orders placed without the need for the incentives.

Lets say the average of per vehicle rebate is $10k. That means tax payer money is going to be roughly 10-20 billion dollars for just the existing preorders.

Its a waste of funds so long as there is more demand than supply. Those funds would be much better spent on things such as roads that are clearly marked to make autonomous driving more accurate or charging stations or some sort of specialized EV related training certification for job force candidates. We can do better.

Don't get me wrong, I would love the rebate, but I didn't place my order with that intent and neither did a majority of the other folks.
 
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TheLastStarfighter

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The US's 'debt rating' is meaningless.

How would these chickens come home to roost?

Did they come home to roost in the 30s and 40s?

That's just ridiculous. What was your debt to income ratio when bought a home? Assuming you bought in the last thirty years and aren't a boomer who benefitted from a massive increase in available housing and spending.

And not even part of the conversation here.

-Crissa
it's not meaningless. That will be shown it time. The deficit levels of the US are idiotic. That's fact moreso than opinion. Unfortunately, Americans don't have much of an option since neither party wants to bring it to balance. Both want to spend to oblivion on their personal interests.
 

CyberGus

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The deficit levels of the US are idiotic. That's fact moreso than opinion.
I rarely see facts labeled with invectives like “idiotic”.

That said, the US debt-to-GDP ratio is too high and will inhibit growth long-term.
 
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