I have a ton of early Cybertruck reservations and want to partner up for a business

[HaulingAss]

On the other hand if it's against the agreement with Tesla then obviously there are potential issues with doing that. You could probably flip one or two under the radar but after that you might want to expect some legal pushback from Tesla. Could get extremely expensive. I don't really have a moral issue with it. It's called arbitrage, happens every day.

Actually, arbitrage doesn't accurately describe the business of flipping Cybertrucks for profit. The correct term is "Breach of Contract". While I agree, there is nothing inherently wrong with arbitrage unless it done by breaching contracts.

The bottom line is that when you create a product others want, you get to write the purchase/sale rules. And, yes, I fully understand that the OP has taken a different tack and would like to honor the contract he will be required to sign but I'm just mentioning it because you continue to claim that there would be nothing wrong with buying them for resale.

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[papajamaliciousness]

Actually, arbitrage doesn't accurately describe the business of flipping Cybertrucks for profit.

I don't recommend that he resell Cybertrucks in violation of the purchase agreement.

He said many times that he no longer plans to resell the cybertrucks...

Arbitrage definitely is exactly the right term for buying any product and reselling it for a different price. Whether or not it is moral or breach of contract, arbitrage is exactly the right term. And it does happen all the time. It probably happened with your mortgage, and your car loan. People speculate and sell your personal information and web history back and forth, trying to obtain a profit. Your money in the bank is probably being used by the bank to arbitrage investments on a minute by minute basis. You are paying insurance companies who are basically arbitraging your risk and selling it back to you for a higher price. You are livestock in a machine that is selling and reselling your money, your debt, and your attention. So I don't really understand why you are morally outraged over a fellow cow trying to make a buck here and there.

But anyway, don't worry, as we have said several times above we do understand that buying Cybertrucks with the intention to resell them is a breach of the explicit terms of the purchase agreement and Tesla reserves the right to cancel purchases where it learns that a person intends to resell them. And neither I nor earthman is trying to spread the disgusting capitalist idea of reselling Cybertrucks for profit in violation of the purchase agreement.

 

[JBee]

I don't recommend that he resell Cybertrucks in violation of the purchase agreement.

He said many times that he no longer plans to resell the cybertrucks...

Arbitrage definitely is exactly the right term for buying any product and reselling it for a different price. Whether or not it is moral or breach of contract, arbitrage is exactly the right term. And it does happen all the time. It probably happened with your mortgage, and your car loan. People speculate and sell your personal information and web history back and forth, trying to obtain a profit. Your money in the bank is probably being used by the bank to arbitrage investments on a minute by minute basis. You are paying insurance companies who are basically arbitraging your risk and selling it back to you for a higher price. You are livestock in a machine that is selling and reselling your money, your debt, and your attention. So I don't really understand why you are morally outraged over a fellow cow trying to make a buck here and there.

But anyway, don't worry, as we have said several times above we do understand that buying Cybertrucks with the intention to resell them is a breach of the explicit terms of the purchase agreement and Tesla reserves the right to cancel purchases where it learns that a person intends to resell them. And neither I nor earthman is trying to spread the disgusting capitalist idea of reselling Cybertrucks for profit in violation of the purchase agreement.

This question came up previously, maybe you have an opinion:

1) After closing the sale of the CT to the customer, does Tesla have the right to interfere with the vehicles operation and resale, if the customer is in breach of the purchase agreement?

2) What avenues are available for a customer to seek relief from Tesla should they do the above, and is it likely that a case against them could be won, given that often legal battles are often won by the better funded?

3) At what point is ownership transferred, and what precedent is there for ownership to be shared. For example, Tesla might sell you the hardware but retain the software rights. Essentially, hardware without software is dead. Would this affect the above?

 

[papajamaliciousness]

This question came up previously, maybe you have an opinion:

If I answer these questions then there is potentially risk to me as a lawyer because you could blame me if things go wrong, also I would be working for free and I would rather watch TV than work for free.

I don't know how other people would answer your questions though.

 

[JBee]

If I answer these questions then there is potentially risk to me as a lawyer because you could blame me if things go wrong, also I would be working for free and I would rather watch TV than work for free.

I don't know how other people would answer your questions though.

lol ok. Dang it! Was fishing for free advice! What's your retainer, do you take Bolivar??

Na just kidding. I'm in Australia, so it might be a bit different here in a kangaroo court , but it did interest me to find out the potential consequences of having a manufacturer that still has significant reach, after ownership of the hardware changes hands.

Do you also have a CT on order if I may ask? (you don't show that on your profile)

 

[charliemagpie]

If you sign an agreement, you agree with the conditions.

If you are in breach, you are then liable as per the agreement.

Doesn't matter which planet..You have signed an agreement with conditions. You have hypothetically agreed to having all your future orders cancelled.

Of course, you can't be hoodwinked.., its relevant and equitable and reasonable.

People get hot under the collar, and once common sense prevails... realize it's better not to go the lawyer route.

Unless you are in California, in which case I guess, you have just won lawyer lotto lol

 

[HaulingAss]

Arbitrage definitely is exactly the right term for buying any product and reselling it for a different price. Whether or not it is moral or breach of contract, arbitrage is exactly the right term. And it does happen all the time. It probably happened with your mortgage, and your car loan. People speculate and sell your personal information and web history back and forth, trying to obtain a profit. Your money in the bank is probably being used by the bank to arbitrage investments on a minute by minute basis. You are paying insurance companies who are basically arbitraging your risk and selling it back to you for a higher price. You are livestock in a machine that is selling and reselling your money, your debt, and your attention. So I don't really understand why you are morally outraged over a fellow cow trying to make a buck here and there.

You don't seem to understand things very well. I have no problem with arbitrage. It's the breach of contract that causes problems. You keep saying that since arbitrage is common, there is nothing wrong with buying/selling Tesla's for a profit. I think you finally understand why it's wrong to not honor an agreement you signed but you can't admit you were wrong so you continue to claim arbitrage is OK, while ignoring the fact that no one said arbitrage is wrong. Breach of contract is wrong.

 

[JBee]

If you sign an agreement, you agree with the conditions.

If you are in breach, you are then liable as per the agreement.

Doesn't matter which planet..You have signed an agreement with conditions. You have hypothetically agreed to having all your future orders cancelled.

Of course, you can't be hoodwinked.., its relevant and equitable and reasonable.

People get hot under the collar, and once common sense prevails... realize it's better not to go the lawyer route.

Unless you are in California, in which case I guess, you have just won lawyer lotto lol

From a business perspective, many contracts are sadly not much more than a "suggestion" of terms, they are not "legally enforceable" or binding until the point in time a court has made judgment and orders to make it so. This is the whole reason for taking someone to court, to enforce the terms by court order.

 

[papajamaliciousness]

You don't seem to understand things very well. I have no problem with arbitrage. It's the breach of contract that causes problems. You keep saying that since arbitrage is common, there is nothing wrong with buying/selling Tesla's for a profit. I think you finally understand why it's wrong to not honor an agreement you signed but you can't admit you were wrong so you continue to claim arbitrage is OK, while ignoring the fact that no one said arbitrage is wrong. Breach of contract is wrong.

I don't get why you are so emotional about a fictional issue. Before he put his first post up, earthman said he had already decided not to resell his cybertrucks. I never instructed him to resell his cybertrucks.

If you want to lecture me perhaps you could take the time to understand my actual position before you get your panties in a bunch.

 

[papajamaliciousness]

lol ok. Dang it! Was fishing for free advice! What's your retainer, do you take Bolivar??

Na just kidding. I'm in Australia, so it might be a bit different here in a kangaroo court , but it did interest me to find out the potential consequences of having a manufacturer that still has significant reach, after ownership of the hardware changes hands.

Do you also have a CT on order if I may ask? (you don't show that on your profile)

If I give you my opinion on those important questions then it feels like work. I would rather rant from a soapbox and try to make jokes about things I don't have to think about.

I don't advise you to buy a cybertruck with the intention of reselling it. I don't judge you if you were thinking about it. I definitely don't think it is immoral to do so, whatever the consequences. There might be consequences.

I wouldn't want to piss off Tesla because they can be a bit vengeful and might not honor your future purchase agreements. I have heard of them refusing to sell to people they don't like.

I don't think they have the right to brick your car after you buy it and if they did I think you would have a very good basis for a lawsuit against them. However if in advance of buying the truck you demonstrate some willingness to resell that could be a problem for you since they could conceivably cancel your order. I prefer to honor the agreements I have made.

However although they won't brick your car, you would want some things to pass on to the new owner, like whatever FSD you bought, and from what I understand this can be a grey area... I am not certain FSD travels with the car to the new owner. Therefore I would want Tesla to feel like all our business has been on the up and up and I wouldn't want to try to resell a cybertruck and spoil my relationship with them.

Yes I have a CT on order. I want to own one, I believe they are going to be awesome. I have historically spent a lot on gas, and I love to drive. Would like to save on gas and be a part of the new revolution of technology. I want to do adventures in it.

This is not legal advice, I don't know your situation.

 

[JBee]

If I give you my opinion on those important questions then it feels like work. I would rather rant from a soapbox and try to make jokes about things I don't have to think about.

I don't advise you to buy a cybertruck with the intention of reselling it. I don't judge you if you were thinking about it. I definitely don't think it is immoral to do so, whatever the consequences. There might be consequences.

I wouldn't want to piss off Tesla because they can be a bit vengeful and might not honor your future purchase agreements. I have heard of them refusing to sell to people they don't like.

I don't think they have the right to brick your car after you buy it and if they did I think you would have a very good basis for a lawsuit against them. However if in advance of buying the truck you demonstrate some willingness to resell that could be a problem for you since they could conceivably cancel your order. I prefer to honor the agreements I have made.

However although they won't brick your car, you would want some things to pass on to the new owner, like whatever FSD you bought, and from what I understand this can be a grey area... I am not certain FSD travels with the car to the new owner. Therefore I would want Tesla to feel like all our business has been on the up and up and I wouldn't want to try to resell a cybertruck and spoil my relationship with them.

Yes I have a CT on order. I want to own one, I believe they are going to be awesome. I have historically spent a lot on gas, and I love to drive. Would like to save on gas and be a part of the new revolution of technology. I want to do adventures in it.

This is not legal advice, I don't know your situation.

Thanks for that.

Just to be clear though I haven't got any plans to sell Cybertrucks at all, in fact the opposite is true that I believe they will be so durable I have invested in buying a few as heirlooms for my kids.

My interest was purely from the perspective of how the such a situation would evolve, and if there need be any concerns from a customer perspective on retaining 100٪ ownership.

 

[papajamaliciousness]

Thanks for that.

Just to be clear though I haven't got any plans to sell Cybertrucks at all, in fact the opposite is true that I believe they will be so durable I have invested in buying a few as heirlooms for my kids.

My interest was purely from the perspective of how the such a situation would evolve, and if there need be any concerns from a customer perspective on retaining 100٪ ownership.

Yeah me too I want to keep mine. If I bump into Sigourney Weaver and she offers me a million dollars for it while I'm driving around town then you know, I'd be willing to discuss it over coffee. But I haven't bumped into a lot of millionaires lately. However I have no plans of actively selling it.

Now I'm curious how many orders are from people trying to resell them. I'm starting to think a lot of people ordered CTs with the intention of reselling them, possibly enough people so that the resale market might be flooded for a while. On the other hand there's so much pent up demand that they'll almost definitely be able to move them, even if it's to people farther back in line. I bet Tesla will crack down though and cancel orders that seem obviously intended for resale. I bet this issue will be in the news in a year or two.

 

[CyberGus]

Welcome to America, capitalism and entrepreneurship!

 

[papajamaliciousness]

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