EV-specific trailers incoming!

[Ogre]

Look, if you want to make irrelevant arguments, go ahead. Putting the wrong address on something no matter the system, is a security risk.

If you want to make straw-man attacks against what I said, go ahead.

They're still straw. I pointed out the words you skipped and you decided not to read them.

All I said is it is incredibly prone to accidental intercept. I’ve personally witnessed this as have literally millions of people.

That is not secure. End of discussion.

The fact that MiTM is marginally difficult is not “Secure”. There are more aspects to security than that one single dimension.

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[Crissa]

All I said is it is incredibly prone to accidental intercept. I’ve personally witnessed this as have literally millions of people.

That is not secure. End of discussion.

The fact that MiTM is marginally difficult is not “Secure”. There are more aspects to security than that one single dimension.

And I didn't say it wasn't.

Again, I repeated which words you're skipping. I did not say it was completely secure.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

Paper mail is quasi secure.

Giving a kid a letter and telling him to hand it take it to the lobby and hand it to the woman in the red dress is quasi secure.

Using an obscure channel on GMRS is quasi secure.

No point in using the word when what you mean is “Not secure at all”.

 

[SwampNut]

A special recorder

Nope. I mean, you're trying hard, I'll give you that. No, what you're missing is that fax is an unencrypted, simple analog modulation over audio. You can record it onto a cassette. A plain old cassette. And then play it back. Fax is specifically audio so it can travel on a limited-spectrum standard POTS line.

something not needed to intercept email.

Explain how you intercept email, and how you intercept fax. I can (and do) intercept fax without physical access all the time. If we are told to resolve a fax problem report, we intercept and analyze it, remotely.

I've been in telecom and IP routing and switching since the early 90s. I've given presentations on these topics and have been trained and certified on dozens of them. I used to write and support mass fax capture and distribution networks doing tens of thousands of faxes daily.

I hope to learn from your expertise, it must be massive.

Back on topic, we fail to advance as a society, like dumbing down cars, because people assume they know so much and are unwilling to learn.

Funny one:
Customer reports that their fax line is down. Small customer, single fax. I do a lot of troubleshooting, send a test fax, call back and ask why they think it's down.

"Well a customer reported an issue, and I've been trying to send myself a test fax for hours and it's always busy..."

 

[SwampNut]

Also, I absolutely cannot intercept email, even from our employees to another employees. It's all encrypted. I mean, I can "intercept" the packets almost as easily as intercepting fax (not as easy) because I have full network access. But the packets will be encrypted. Have I "intercepted" the email? Not it any useful way, and that encryption is widely considered unbreakable.

 

[Crissa]

You think email is encrypted more than wires hidden in the wall?

Alas, you're wrong.

-Crissa

 

[SwampNut]

You think email is encrypted more than wires hidden in the wall?

No, but you didn't really read the rest of what I said, apparently. Doesn't matter, you're just arguing to argue, apparently.

Also, not all wires are hidden. My current fun...

Yes, some fax lines, and every single one of those conversations/faxes are easily intercepted. The emails on the fiber going through the same demarc? Nope.

 

[Ogre]

No, but you didn't really read the rest of what I said, apparently. Doesn't matter, you're just arguing to argue, apparently.

Also, not all wires are hidden. My current fun...

Yes, some fax lines, and every single one of those conversations/faxes are easily intercepted. The emails on the fiber going through the same demarc? Nope.

That looks like I place I worked at for a while.

No 100%, but in my experience in healthcare, telephone rooms often have less physically secure than datacenters in the same building.

 

[SwampNut]

No 100%, but in my experience in healthcare, telephone rooms often have less physically secure than datacenters in the same building.

Yeah, it's nearly 100% for me also. Telecom rooms are treated like "whatever" and the server room is Fort Knox. Which is in a way ass backwards these days when (hopefully) most everything is encrypted.

That one is a hotel, they have 0% security and I've walked into them as a guest to help myself to a line or high speed internet more than once. All of your faxes could be mine.

Small medical offices...zero security. Usually there's a mop holding the server room door open.

When we did medically compliant fax, the lines were just wires you could tap, and of course fax is open analog. Once we converted it to digital, we had myriad rules on encryption, storage, physical access. But the wire room? Meh.

 

[Ogre]

When we did medically compliant fax, the lines were just wires you could tap, and of course fax is open analog. Once we converted it to digital, we had myriad rules on encryption, storage, physical access. But the wire room? Meh.

That was one of the LOL moments for HIPAA when we were implementing it. For us it was a huge deal, near Y2K compliance effort. But for our counterparts in the phone room? Business as usual.

 

[SwampNut]

That's because everyone knows that fax is secure, but the encrypted documents going over that encrypted VPN over a piece of fiber that takes CIA level gear to hijack? Totally the problem.

"On New Year, the time on the PBX will not roll over and it will think it's 1970."

So what, the phone displays will be wrong.

"Um no."

 

[Sirfun]

No, but you didn't really read the rest of what I said, apparently. Doesn't matter, you're just arguing to argue, apparently.

Also, not all wires are hidden. My current fun...

Yes, some fax lines, and every single one of those conversations/faxes are easily intercepted. The emails on the fiber going through the same demarc? Nope.

I've come to the conclusion that Crissa has taken on the role of the devil's advocate for this forum. With that thought, when she takes on what I say, it's much easier to just let it go.

 

[Bill906]

What are the chances of a Russian hacker getting information that was emailed, verses getting information that was faxed?

 

[SwampNut]

What are the chances of a Russian hacker getting information that was emailed, verses getting information that was faxed?

I have no idea if that’s a serious question or trolling. I’m always happy to engage on real questions.

Both would be hard to do internationally. Fax is obviously easier because if it hits an IP network, and that network is hacked, they can just capture and reassemble the fax. In most cases, even if the network is hacked, the email stays encrypted and inaccessible. If they capture the packets they can’t be reassembled.

 

[FutureBoy]

I've come to the conclusion that Crissa has taken on the role of the devil's advocate for this forum. With that thought, when she takes on what I say, it's much easier to just let it go.

Ya know... If Crissa is the devil's advocate, you can just take the position of the devil and then the two of you will agree. Problem solved.

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