Honoring Original Estimated Pricing

[Deleted member 3316]

LOL.

Literally, your proof is that people like you have been posting their fears for the past 12+ months.

Perfecto.

Do you honestly believe the unprecedented demand for Cybertruck is not going to push up prices?

Unless there are mechanisms in place to actively obstruct parasitic profiteering, overall prices for Cybertruck will be high.

My suggestion will allow for lower prices for genuine reservation holders and allow for late comers to join the party at what ever cost the market will allow.

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[HaulingAss]

What is the difference to Tesla if one person is scalping 100 vehicles or 50 people scalping two? Zero functional difference besides the difficulty in identifying them before the transaction is complete

100 scalped Cybertrucks is insignificant. Tesla will be making hundreds of thousands before too long. And most reservation holders really want a Cybertruck for their own use, you seem to think there are huge numbers of people who reserved a Cybertruck just so they could speculate and make a few thousand by re-selling it for more. Yes, those people exist, no, Tesla will not allow them to turn it into a high volume business - they will shut them down.

That’s not what I’ve said. Tesla have a fiduciary responsibility to balance their production targets with available profit margins, in order to reach a high enough production volume it’s clearly quite acceptable for them to sell at a loss in order reach a desired and profitable volume. They have a fiduciary responsibility to not let revenue due to them go to an external entity. Which is why Elon has frequently said the high prices for Teslas are embarrassing.

No, you're wrong about that. Tesla is under no fidiciary obligation to prevent scalping, they will keep it minimal simply because they want to remain the primary dealer of the vehicles they build.

Are you thinking I’m arguing for Tesla to make a blanket price rise to Cybertruck?

I’m not.

I suggesting Tesla provide a mechanism to let people, who DON’T have a reservation;

To pay as much as they see fit,​

For a small percentage of the production volume,​

Directly to Tesla.​

That would be dishonest and distasteful to let people who had not put any money down to jump to the front of the line simply because they were willing to pay more.

The fidiciary responsibility Tesla has doesn't mean what you think it does.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

100 scalped Cybertrucks is insignificant

really…? It was used as an indicative reference, the number is irrelevant.

you seem to think there are huge numbers of people who reserved a Cybertruck just so they could speculate and make a few thousand by re-selling it for more.

Why then are Teslas prices and margins so high if not to fend off lost profit from scalpers?

because they want to remain the primary dealer of the vehicles they build.

Why Though? Why don’t they have franchise stealerships dealerships?

That would be dishonest and distasteful to let people who had not put any money down to jump to the front of the line simply because they were willing to pay more.

Which is exactly what scalpers are doing.

It’s going to happen whether it’s facilitated by Tesla or not.

Sounds like you think that behaviour should be discouraged or at least made less opaque.

As it is the basis of a capitalist system, Tesla won’t be seen as price gouging if there is an auction open to all, whilst providing genuine purchasers with a reservation an option to not pay as high a price as late comers with wads of cash.

Is this what is confusing you? The fact I’m suggesting a two tiered pricing system. Extreme capitalist approach of completely free market volatility open to all, and a partially socialist queue of a defined price that steadily trails macro economics only for reservation holders.

The fidiciary responsibility Tesla has doesn't mean what you think it does

I have no idea what fidiciary responsibility is but fiduciary responsibility refers to the legal and ethical obligation that a person or entity has to act in the best interest of another party or parties. This responsibility arises when one party is entrusted with the care or management of assets, funds, or other resources belonging to another party.

Much of your commentary here appears incongruous if not contradictory, Can tell me what exactly are you disagreeing with in a three sentence paragraph?

Boil it down for me.

 

[cvalue13]

Boil it down for me.

You can’t scope the magnitude of the purported “problem.” You also can’t scope the ineffectiveness of Tesla’s existing solutions.

You’re left chicken-littling that Tesla has a massive problem on their hands, with no tools to address it, but if only they’d listen to you. It’s both unpersuasive, and narcissistic.

Bad look.

 

[Alpine]

 

[Ogre]

I’m suggesting Tesla provide a mechanism to let people, who DON’T have a reservation;

To pay as much as they see fit,​

For a small percentage of the production volume,​

Directly to Tesla.​

You are suggesting… that Tesla slot people who did not have the foresight to make a reservation on launch night into the queue ahead of me.

Fuck that noise. The percentage of cars Tesla should allot to Johnny come latelies with fat cash is 0%.

 

[Ogre]

Do you honestly believe the unprecedented demand for Cybertruck is not going to push up prices?

I think Tesla will continue doing business as they have in the past.

When there was a 9 month long backlog for the Model Y, did Tesla make an “Express Queue” where you could pay 50% more to get your car tomorrow? No. They did not. Likewise for every other model in their lineup.

What precedent do you have for Tesla doing screwing over reservation holders by up charging them massively or inserting high dollar buyers? This is all just a fabrication in your head.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

You are suggesting… that Tesla slot people who did not have the foresight to make a reservation on launch night into the queue ahead of me.

Fuck that noise. The percentage of cars Tesla should allot to Johnny come latelies with fat cash is 0%.

Do you not realise the Jonny come latelies are going to get their cars whether you want them to or not and because of them

YOU PAY MORE….​

Is it really that hard to understand?
Let them pay more to Tesla so you don’t have to.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

I think Tesla will continue doing business as they have in the past.

Most likely, but a two tiered market strategy keeps reservation holders purchase price low and stable, and allows for the inevitable queue jumpers to pay Tesla instead of parasitic profiteers

When there was a 9 month long backlog for the Model Y, did Tesla make an “Express Queue” where you could pay 50% more to get your car tomorrow? No. They did not. Likewise for every other model in their lineup.

How long is the back log for Cybertruck? No Tesla haven’t done what I am suggesting, which is why I’m suggesting it. There is a system where you can pay 50% more to get your car tomorrow, it’s called scalping. Cory Stuben has offered 100% more

What precedent do you have for Tesla doing screwing over reservation holders by up charging them massively or inserting high dollar buyers? This is all just a fabrication in your head.

There is no precedent for Tesla doing this which is why I’m suggesting it.

What is clearly apparent though is Tesla making unprecedented margins on their products because of unprecedented demand. If you want to call that screwing over reservation holders then have at it.

Look at the suggestion as a whole and highlight the flaw. I’m yet to be shown anything compelling.

 

[Ogre]

Do you not realise the Jonny come latelies are going to get their cars whether you want them to or not and because of them

​

YOU PAY MORE….​

Is it really that hard to understand?
Let them pay more to Tesla so you don’t have to.

No, I don’t pay more.

The amount of “cream” Tesla can skim this was is a rounding error on the best quarter.

Most likely, but a two tiered market strategy keeps reservation holders purchase price low and stable, and allows for the inevitable queue jumpers to pay Tesla instead of parasitic profiteers




How long is the back log for Cybertruck? No Tesla haven’t done what I am suggesting, which is why I’m suggesting it. There is a system where you can pay 50% more to get your car tomorrow, it’s called scalping. Cory Stuben has offered 100% more



There is no precedent for Tesla doing this which is why I’m suggesting it.

What is clearly apparent though is Tesla making unprecedented margins on their products because of unprecedented demand. If you want to call that screwing over reservation holders then have at it.

Look at the suggestion as a whole and highlight the flaw. I’m yet to be shown anything compelling.

I’ve shown the math on this before. Tesla would need to sell huge numbers of trucks at their “scalper reduction rates” to have any kind of impact on their bottom line.

Do the math. How much are they going to upcharge? $50k? Even if they sold 10,000 at that kind of upcharge, it still has zero impact on the bottom line. Literally all it does is screw me and everyone else out of truck ownership for 2-3 months. If there are fewer trucks sold this way, it has less impact on delivery date, but even less impact on Tesla’s bottom line.

Scalping has zero impact on my deliver date and zero impact on what I pay. You are tilting at some bizarro windmill with no basis.

You’ve crafted a way for some rich people to steal time in truck from me and seem to want me to love you for it. Guess what….

Not gonna happen.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

No, I don’t pay more.

The amount of “cream” Tesla can skim this was is a rounding error on the best quarter.



I’ve shown the math on this before. Tesla would need to sell huge numbers of trucks at their “scalper reduction rates” to have any kind of impact on their bottom line.

Do the math. How much are they going to upcharge? $50k? Even if they sold 10,000 at that kind of upcharge, it still has zero impact on the bottom line. Literally all it does is screw me and everyone else out of truck ownership for 2-3 months. If there are fewer trucks sold this way, it has less impact on delivery date, but even less impact on Tesla’s bottom line.

Scalping has zero impact on my deliver date and zero impact on what I pay. You are tilting at some bizarro windmill with no basis.

You’ve crafted a way for some rich people to steal time in truck from me and seem to want me to love you for it. Guess what….

Not gonna happen.

It doesn’t change your deliver date because Tesla is selling direct to the customer rather than having a scalper as an intermediary. The same amount of trucks are made and delivered it’s just that there isn’t an unnecessary middleman facilitating queue jumpers.

Rich people stealing time! Lols. That is the basis of the capitalist system.

No matter how high Tesla price the Cybertruck there will be people that will pay more to jump the queue.

I have crafted a mechanism for Tesla to take advantage of that rather than parasitic profiteers.

It’s still not entirely clear what you’re objecting to. Three sentences, boil it down for me…

 

[Ogre]

It’s still not entirely clear what you’re objecting to. Three sentences, boil it down for me…

I’ve said this like 18 times and you post a page of BS trying to gloss over it.

You are suggesting… that Tesla slot people who did not have the foresight to make a reservation on launch night into the queue ahead of those who did.

Not sure what is hard to understand about that. Smaller word needed?

“Late comers can wait”.

There is a fixed number of people between me and Cybertruck #1. No matter how many ways you try and rephrase it, you are trying to insert more people between me and my truck.

There is zero evidence this will have any affect on anything at all other than delay delivery for reservation holders. No evidence this will eliminate scalpers. No evidence this will affect Tesla’s bottom line.

Personally… Its becoming increasingly clear it’s an attempt to back door a truck earlier for yourself.

 

[Deleted member 3316]

There is a fixed number of people between me and Cybertruck #1. No matter how many ways you try and rephrase it, you are trying to insert more people between me and my truck.

Its so funny that you don’t understand this.

Late comers won’t wait. They’ll just pay to get ahead of you.

People are already able to jump the queue.

They will buy a vehicle from scalpers ahead of you in the queue.

If the mechanism for scalpers to operate is restricted,

​

YOU WILL MOVE UP THE QUEUE!​

Tesla can avoid the “appearance” of enabling queue jumpers by only allowing reservation holders to participate in the unrestricted sales contract for vehicles sold at auction, but an open market exclude scalpers completely.

I have a very early reservation. I do not want to pay a price premium because of unprecedented demand.

I’ll ask again what are you objecting to?

 

[Ogre]

Its so funny that you don’t understand this.

Late comers won’t wait. They’ll just pay to get ahead of you.

You are literally proposing that the fix for this is give them the chance to pay to get ahead of me.

Old world w/ scalpers: 30,000 people buy trucks, a few hundred want to sell them before I get my truck. Who cares.

New World “The ***** Way”: Tesla adds 5,000 people in the queue in front of me, there are still a few hundred people ahead of me willing to scalp their trucks. They might get a few bucks less, but they are still there.

Win?

It’s nonsense. There is literally no number you can plug into the front of that equation that will “Move me up in the queue”. The backlog of demand is too high.

I’m around 50,000 in the queue. Are there 50,000 people willing to pay to move up in line? You betcha there are. What does putting them in front of me do other than screw me over?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

You are literally proposing that the fix for this is give them the chance to pay to get ahead of me.

Old world w/ scalpers: 30,000 people buy trucks, a few hundred want to sell them before I get my truck. Who cares.

New World “The ***** Way”: Tesla adds 5,000 people in the queue in front of me, there are still a few hundred people ahead of me willing to scalp their trucks. They might get a few bucks less, but they are still there.

Win?

It’s nonsense. There is literally no number you can plug into the front of that equation that will “Move me up in the queue”. The backlog of demand is too high.

Read my last post and try again.

How many early reservation holders will cancel their extra reservations if they don’t have a way to sell them?

I’m quite sure Tesla would prioritise genuine reservation holders, and maximise profit available from queue jumpers by restricting the available vehicles, thus maintaining demand but also acknowledging people like you get very upset that high wealth individuals exist and pay ridiculous amounts of money for new toys.

It’s quite amusing that you are objecting to this thinking it amplifies queue jumpers.

It doesn’t.

It just acknowledges they exist and allows Tesla to profit from it rather than some rando from the internet.

The cancellations will give an indication as to how many were intended to be scalped. Maybe Tesla puts that same amount out for auction or maybe a percentage, either way you’re not going to be shifted back in the queue.

Have we clarified your objection yet?
It appears your objection is merely misunderstanding of how the capitalist system works

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