350 mile range Quad Motor rumored to be 1st trim launched

[ZARDOZ]

Where did you get 2.5 hours? If the range is even 350 miles, and you only go to 80% (which doesn't make sense if you know you're taking a trip in the morning) and you hit a supercharger at 20%, then you've got 210 miles of range. You'd have to AVERAGE 84mph to cover that distance in 2.5. And to get that average, you have to drive a helluva lot faster than 84 to get that average. More than likely, it's going to take you about 3.5 hours to cover the 210 miles. And if there is ANY traffic, it's more like 4 hours. That's your requirement exactly.

I got it from the post I quoted had quoted which was :

If you toss in 800 lbs of load or throw on a small trailer or add some significant terrain or weather, you will be stopping every 170 - 180 miles.

2.5 hours at 70mph gives me 175 miles.

Sponsored

 

[PilotPete]

I got it from the post I quoted had quoted which was :

2.5 hours at 70mph gives me 175 miles.

Ok, so let's say that's true. That means you're doing, for the most part, close to 80. What the heck are you doing with 800# of cargo doing 80+ on the freeway? That's like saying you can go 400 miles on a tank of gas with published gas mileage, but you're doing 90. And if you have a delivery or a job you're going to charge to 100%, so 350 miles. With the same 20% penalty (a bit hefty for 800#) that gives you 290 miles (291.667) and even at 70mpg/avg, you're looking at 4hours and 10 minutes.

 

[cybguy]

How is "price" not part of "competitive"?

Because you're eating cake and we are having caviar. I will fill all 3 of my family's early preorders if that is only $80K.
However this whole thread is likely the typical nonsense posted on this site..

 

[ZARDOZ]

Ok, so let's say that's true. That means you're doing, for the most part, close to 80. What the heck are you doing with 800# of cargo doing 80+ on the freeway? That's like saying you can go 400 miles on a tank of gas with published gas mileage, but you're doing 90. And if you have a delivery or a job you're going to charge to 100%, so 350 miles. With the same 20% penalty (a bit hefty for 800#) that gives you 290 miles (291.667) and even at 70mpg/avg, you're looking at 4hours and 10 minutes.

No, it means 70; exactly 70. So I can't go 70mph with 4 200lb people in the car? You're moving the goalposts from the quote I was responding to.

 

[JBee]

No, it means 70; exactly 70. So I can't go 70mph with 4 200lb people in the car? You're moving the goalposts from the quote I was responding to.

Adding 800lbs won't impact range more than 3-4٪ because it won't add much to the existing rolling resistance of the vehicle. Even if you drag that up hill, you still have to come down the other side which gives it back. Your main concern would be headwind and aerodynamics.

So if you have a load that sticks out of the bed or tow a standard trailer then the range reduction will be more noticeable, especially so if you want to travel fast.

It's important to note that if you double your airspeed you quadruple your energy consumption from aerodynamics. So going slower makes a huge difference in an EV, and often ends up getting you to your destination faster, because you can skip Superchargers over a long trip, let alone driving to one that is not along the way.

Technically, if you need to you can drop your speed to get well in excess of the stated range AND have longer than 4 hour trips of course!

You can also try hypermiling techniques and slipstreaming a truck or van, I know from experience that they work wonders to extend range. My guiding principle with long range EV driving to the end of capacity is; start slow, then get faster as you go, depending on the buffer you create.

The point here is that EVs are much more sensitive to these things than an ICE, so using these techniques also has a much more noticeable affect on range in an EV.

 

[BigAl]

Airstream does have a powered prototype.

-Crissa

Yes they do... watch the demo... even control/move it with your phone

 

[PilotPete]

No, it means 70; exactly 70. So I can't go 70mph with 4 200lb people in the car? You're moving the goalposts from the quote I was responding to.

So what you're saying is, from the moment you leave your driveway, you're doing 70mph, you never slow, never come to a stoplight, never hit traffic, still do 70 straight up the on ramp, still keep doing 70 on the freeway, get off the freeway doing 70, don't have any stop signs or lights, and do 70 right up until you instantly go from 70 to 0 at your destination or a supercharger?

I'm not moving anything. But to average 70, you have to drive faster than 70 to make up for all the time you can't do 70. If you think this is moving the goalposts, then you have never done a time, speed, distance, calculation.

 

[Chris9702L]

Ya know what I’m not getting here (quite a bit, I’m sure)? I never knew so many people (especially when shoved into a crew cab, 6 at a time) were willing to drive 6.5-7 HOURS without stopping. And that they had to do it so often… Think about that… 7 hours with 5 other guys without a single stop. You know that at least 1 out of 6 didn’t take a shower that morning. And being that these are guys, 2 out of 6 (minimum) ate something that either doesn’t agree with them, or is high in fiber. And for a 7 hour drive, 5 out of 6 just pounded a 32 ouncer of coffee. (And I don’t mean the ethically sourced Ethiopian light roast either) 7 hours in a truck with these guys… no stopping…

Dang, I lead a sheltered life..

The need for 500 Mile range - you hook the Cybertruck onto your camper and go out to the mountains to camp. Now the camper will cut the range by 40% and then another 10% cut by going uphill in the mountains (I wonder if anyone has tested how much range you lose going up mountains compared to regen braking coming back down?). So that 500 mile range is cut down to 250. So you have to find a camping spot no further out then 125 miles to get there and back. I live in Colorado Springs and there isn’t much Superchargers out west of me (hello Tesla, if you are reading this you desperately need superchargers in Woodland Park, Canyon City, and Buena Vista!). So a minimum of 500 miles is needed.

 

[JBee]

So what you're saying is, from the moment you leave your driveway, you're doing 70mph, you never slow, never come to a stoplight, never hit traffic, still do 70 straight up the on ramp, still keep doing 70 on the freeway, get off the freeway doing 70, don't have any stop signs or lights, and do 70 right up until you instantly go from 70 to 0 at your destination or a supercharger?

I'm not moving anything. But to average 70, you have to drive faster than 70 to make up for all the time you can't do 70. If you think this is moving the goalposts, then you have never done a time, speed, distance, calculation.

With average speeds, it is always the case that it gets harder the faster you want your average speed to be. For example, the difference between averaging 60 or 70 is much easier than 70 to 80 and so on. Speed cameras not withstanding.

Even in the US where speed limits are considered more of a suggestion (like bumpers for some reason!) the main problem is actually traffic and lights.

In Germany you have the "green wave", which means if you drive the near the limit, you will only get one red light down the same road going through a town, because all the lights are synced to the speed limit. This means much better traffic flow and less congestion overall.

That means you can average Around 30mph through town, whereas non-synchronised lights you'll be happy to get half that even if you get lucky with the lights.

This is even a problem on the freeway, in that slower traffic, spread across all the lanes willy-nilly like in the US, means you have to meander through traffic to keep up your average speed, especially over the limit. It's also dangerous and tiresome.

In Germany, you have a stay right rule, which is unless you are overtaking you have to go as far right on the lanes as reasonably possible. The other item is that you must yield to the left lane, meaning that if you see someone coming in that lane in the mirror, you need to let them pass before pulling out into it.

This means the left lane is often quite free of traffic, which allows you to go 120mph and do that safely because the onerous is on the right lane drivers to keep the left free and at speed. They also have minimum lane speed limits there, meaning if you are too slow, you need to merge right into the slower lanes.

All this helps with one thing: traffic flow. Which is nothing other than average speed, or distance from point to point over time.

I'm sure you know this, just thought I'd elaborate for those that don't.

 

[PilotPete]

The need for 500 Mile range - you hook the Cybertruck onto your camper and go out to the mountains to camp. Now the camper will cut the range by 40% and then another 10% cut by going uphill in the mountains (I wonder if anyone has tested how much range you lose going up mountains compared to regen braking coming back down?). So that 500 mile range is cut down to 250. So you have to find a camping spot no further out then 125 miles to get there and back. I live in Colorado Springs and there isn’t much Superchargers out west of me (hello Tesla, if you are reading this you desperately need superchargers in Woodland Park, Canyon City, and Buena Vista!). So a minimum of 500 miles is needed.

Ok, I get what you're saying, and my point to the other poster was better explained by JBee. But you are stating that the camper WILL cut the range 40%. I'll say, How do you know? We have ZERO data on what the CT will tow and the effect. And while we are at it, which trailer? with how much in it? And 10% going up hill? What if the right trailer was only 20% penalty? And the net up/down in the mountains was 7.3%? It's like every other spec and price. We don't know what we don't know.

The engineer in me really gets tense when people quote absolutes without data to support them.

 

[Chris9702L]

[QUOTE="PilotPete, post: 164294, member:

very true! We don’t know anything. But the more range the better. More range equals more options. To me the rumor of the 350 mile range that was supposed to be announced yesterday is dead. I just hope they have a normal range and an extended range when they launch.

 

[cvalue13]

Ok, I get what you're saying, and my point to the other poster was better explained by JBee. But you are stating that the camper WILL cut the range 40%. I'll say, How do you know? We have ZERO data on what the CT will tow and the effect. And while we are at it, which trailer? with how much in it? And 10% going up hill? What if the right trailer was only 20% penalty? And the net up/down in the mountains was 7.3%? It's like every other spec and price. We don't know what we don't know.

The engineer in me really gets tense when people quote absolutes without data to support them.

I don’t think it’s fair to say the 40% is claimed as an absolute, so much as a fair if not conservative estimate.

Because to a material extent, this towing question is not so heavily influenced by the vehicle as it is the trailer.

To that extent, you’re right that the trailer matters. It seems fair to assume we’re talking about any material trailer.

For what it’s worth, the Tesla sedans lose as much as 25%from merely a bicycle rack.

Meanwhile, as I understand engineers like to listen only to engineers - there *is* data about what the CT will tow, to the extent identical physics apply to it as any other:

 

[Crissa]

So you have to find a camping spot no further out then 125 miles to get there and back. I live in Colorado Springs and...

Yeah. We've had this discussion. Punch it into ABRP. Search PlugShare. The vast majority of camping spots are going to be within 100 miles of a Supercharger. Especially spots you can pull in a trailer.

I don't doubt the need for a truck with a long range. Just, you don't need to exaggerate.

-Crissa

 

[Chris9702L]

Yeah. We've had this discussion. Punch it into ABRP. Search PlugShare. The vast majority of camping spots are going to be within 100 miles of a Supercharger. Especially spots you can pull in a trailer.

I don't doubt the need for a truck with a long range. Just, you don't need to exaggerate.

-Crissa

Sorry No. check out southern Colorado. Not a lot of superchargers down there. A check out Branson and Springfield, MO. No superchargers down there either. All of southern MO is bare. Not exaggerating, wish I was wrong. I love the network but it can be better.

 

[Crissa]

Sorry No. check out southern Colorado. Not a lot of superchargers down there. A check out Branson and Springfield, MO. No superchargers down there either. All of southern MO is bare. Not exaggerating, wish I was wrong. I love the network but it can be better.

Okay, but...

There are three Superchargers within 100 miles of Branson, and several Destination chargers inside of Branson. Lots of Level 2 charging.

See, the thing is, you drive through towns with Superchargers, and sleep in places with Level 2 charging. Then you go further.

Not that there's alot left that's more than 100 miles from a Supercharger, especially if you're willing to take the scenic route. Which is, in this case, the shorter route.

-Crissa

Sponsored