Round or square? Buttons or stalks?

[Setok]

Trying it once in a test drive and living with it for a few months are two totally different things. And if you’re convinced you won’t like it, I promise you won’t.

I fully recognise that (and I do plan a longer test drive). But for zero benefit, and clear downsides, why bother?

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[Setok]

I would have less issue with stalkless if they position the turn signal buttons correctly on the steering wheel. Ferrari did it right by putting the left signal for operation with the left thumb and the right signal for the right thumb. This works far better in practice than the current turn signal position using both left and right signal with the left thumb on the stalkless cars.

Though the Ferrari setup doesn’t really solve the roundabout or tight turning issue. It may end up actually being worse.

But a Ferrari isn’t a daily driver so that’s a minor point.

 

[PilotPete]

I fully recognise that (and I do plan a longer test drive). But for zero benefit, and clear downsides, why bother?

There is my point. You have already assumed there is zero benefit. And even if you do adapt, you will always believe it was zero benefit. Maybe, once you get used to it, it has a benefit you don’t currently recognize. Or it may suck. I’m keeping an open mind. You are free to believe whatever you choose.

 

[wtibbit]

You are right. You should keep what you have.

What is your reservation number? Asking for everyone not planning to keep what they have....

 

[Crissa]

Turning to 90 degrees with the hands at 3 and 6 is awkward. It’s doable, but awkward, and awards you less control of the car (for instance if you hit

Because you totally should go into a traffic circle at speed if it's covered in ice...

And nobody has been able to explain what the user benefit here is.

You were able to find a total of one instance where your wheel would need to be turned and you need to change your signals.

1. A yoke design eliminates the injurious air bag position of hand at 12 oclock.
2. It encourages a rest position most advantageous to remaining in control.
3. It encourages a full contact position of the wheel during at-speed maneuvers.
4. A yoke design maximizes forward view.
5. A yoke design maximizes leg room to enter and exit the vehicle.

Just because you ignored these reasons, doesn't mean no one mentioned them, or that they don't exist.

Stalks do have some advantages, but their fiddly knobs I could do without. A thumb switch gives me nearly the same usage, so I'll take the cheaper option.

-Crissa

 

[newwave1331]

Square is the obvious choice if you are only going to make one. Stalks have stayed around 59%. There is definitely a case for them to still exist. Isn't there better uses for those those button locations on the wheel?

Because you totally should go into a traffic circle at speed if it's covered in ice...


You were able to find a total of one instance where your wheel would need to be turned and you need to change your signals.

1. A yoke design eliminates the injurious air bag position of hand at 12 oclock.
2. It encourages a rest position most advantageous to remaining in control.
3. It encourages a full contact position of the wheel during at-speed maneuvers.
4. A yoke design maximizes forward view.
5. A yoke design maximizes leg room to enter and exit the vehicle.

Just because you ignored these reasons, doesn't mean no one mentioned them, or that they don't exist.

Stalks do have some advantages, but their fiddly knobs I could do without. A thumb switch gives me nearly the same usage, so I'll take the cheaper option.

-Crissa

Yoke is steady at 21%. Keep preaching.

 

[Coolbreeze704]

Missing the forest for the tress. The truck design is also based on FSD which doesn't need your input. It turns the signal on.
Even though most of the current buyers think FSD will not be working anytime soon or do not plan on buying it, Elon is designing the vehicle to minimize unnecessary part but also to build out design to accommodate future use which Elon and Tesla believes is FSD.

I plan on using FSD a high percentage of my regular driving.

 

[PilotPete]

Yoke is steady at 21%. Keep preaching.

Sorry, but even a worldwide poll of 8 billion people wouldn’t mean it isn’t better.

I remember when the OEMs moved the high beam switch from the floor on the left to the column stalk. You’d have thought they were moving the steering wheel to the back seat facing backwards the way some people fussed and the commentary on the news. Now, no one thinks twice about it. A large part of any change is just the human reaction to change itself. Some people love something new, but most like it “just the way it is.” This is true even when the change is an improvement. So if you drove your CT at 88mph and went back to the early 70’s and polled the public about moving the high beam switch to the column, you’d have most people complaining about it, and a given percentage would make up a safety case as to why this was a terrible idea and that people were going to freakin’ die because of this horrid idea.

Humans adapt, but they don’t change…

 

[Setok]

Because you totally should go into a traffic circle at speed if it's covered in ice...


You were able to find a total of one instance where your wheel would need to be turned and you need to change your signals.

1. A yoke design eliminates the injurious air bag position of hand at 12 oclock.
2. It encourages a rest position most advantageous to remaining in control.
3. It encourages a full contact position of the wheel during at-speed maneuvers.
4. A yoke design maximizes forward view.
5. A yoke design maximizes leg room to enter and exit the vehicle.

Just because you ignored these reasons, doesn't mean no one mentioned them, or that they don't exist.

Stalks do have some advantages, but their fiddly knobs I could do without. A thumb switch gives me nearly the same usage, so I'll take the cheaper option.

-Crissa

Nobody was talking about speeding. But things happen. Which is why I prefer to keep my hands in a position of good control. You seem to advocate for that later yourself.

You mention ‘one instance’. Roundabouts are an everyday occurrence here. Tight bends are also quite common. Yes, those are the reasons for stalks. But they are enough of a reason.

The benefits you list are about the yoke and are unrelated to stalks or not stalks. We could debate the yoke too, but that’s a separate matter. Besides, the ship has sailed on that one and Tesla has returned to providing wheels.

 

[Crissa]

Missing the forest for the tress. The truck design is also based on FSD which doesn't need your input. It turns the signal on.
...

I plan on using FSD a high percentage of my regular driving.

FSD Beta is easier to use with a circle that you let slide through your hand.

Different tools do different things.

When you say 'zero' and you have to type it out on a page that has a list of advantages, I gotta think maybe your argument isn't good. It's not a 'debunk' to just deny what exists and say it's irrelevant because you said so.

I don't need to respond to Setok on stalks because that's just a moving goalpost. Buttons are cheaper. That's all there needs to be. I don't need stalks.

Do I prefer having high beams on the stalk/wheel to on the floor? Yes. Does it make a difference safety-wise? Probably not. On the floor was cute, but I always drove stick, so it wasn't something I was used to.

-Crissa

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

For a different perspective I'll give you mine. This summer I came down with severe Rheumatoid Arthritis. I'm waiting for treatment. In the meantime, I'm in pain from head to toe most days because the ligaments around my joints are inflamed and feel like they are covered in broken glass. The only way they almost don't hurt is in the "neutral" position, aka the fetal position. Anything fully extended or contracted hurts like hell. What hurts most of all is a joint moving out of it's natural plane (think doing the Vulcan "v" solute as opposed to just closing or opening your fingers around something. This condition has made me reflect on how unergonomic current driving is. Gripping a round steering wheel is not a natural thing to grab (most human tool handles are straight for a reason). Flicking a turn signal with the side of you finger is also not proper and is against the natural motion of your joint and the muscles that move it. While I'm mostly waiting for some delicious anti-RA medication to be approved by our pokey health system, I have also regularly fantasized about a CT's squared off steering wheel that I can grab without curving my hands, and turn signals that are a simple contraction of my thumb rather than a pain-inducing sideways flick of my finger. While most of you will never deal with the pain of RA, a more natural interface is probably good for everyone. The current system is only thought of as natural because it's been around for a long time. The new Tesla system is superior, and I'll be going square+buttons all day long.

 

[PilotPete]

Well, I was mostly referring to stalks, not yokes. (read the discourse with Setok about lane changes and signaling and gear changes, and signaling in roundabouts.)So, there;s the first issue. Second, I was talking about human nature, not whether or not yokes were inherently good or bad.

For the record, I think when you get full on variable gain steering, yokes could be better (Think SbW). Then again, an 1964 Plymouth wagon with crappy power steering probably doesn’t adapt to a yoke very well. So, I’ll go with “it depends on the application.” And it has “Z E R O” to do with looking or feeling cool. I’m way past the age where I care what everyone think about my choices.

As far as any change to the norm, that was the point of my post. I’ll say it again. If you are certain you won’t like it, you won’t. If you are certain there is no benefit, you won’t find one. If you are open minded and are willing to wait and see, there may or may not be a benefit. You probably will adapt.

 

[Stuck4ger]

I was totally onboard with a yoke for CT and not happy when it became a woke. Here’s a good yoke discussion on X.

 

[Setok]

For a different perspective I'll give you mine. This summer I came down with severe Rheumatoid Arthritis. I'm waiting for treatment. In the meantime, I'm in pain from head to toe most days because the ligaments around my joints are inflamed and feel like they are covered in broken glass. The only way they almost don't hurt is in the "neutral" position, aka the fetal position. Anything fully extended or contracted hurts like hell. What hurts most of all is a joint moving out of it's natural plane (think doing the Vulcan "v" solute as opposed to just closing or opening your fingers around something. This condition has made me reflect on how unergonomic current driving is. Gripping a round steering wheel is not a natural thing to grab (most human tool handles are straight for a reason). Flicking a turn signal with the side of you finger is also not proper and is against the natural motion of your joint and the muscles that move it. While I'm mostly waiting for some delicious anti-RA medication to be approved by our pokey health system, I have also regularly fantasized about a CT's squared off steering wheel that I can grab without curving my hands, and turn signals that are a simple contraction of my thumb rather than a pain-inducing sideways flick of my finger. While most of you will never deal with the pain of RA, a more natural interface is probably good for everyone. The current system is only thought of as natural because it's been around for a long time. The new Tesla system is superior, and I'll be going square+buttons all day long.

Not to dismiss your condition, which must be horrible, but now imagine traversing a tight bend, with the wheel at over 90° and not being able to reposition your hands, or hitting those indicator buttons at awkward angles.

A yoke and touch sensitive buttons (btw do they even work with gloves on?) are fine when driving straight.

For the record I have less of a beef with the yoke. In the Model S it has the benefit of opening up the view to the dash gauge area (a benefit that does not exist with the Model 3 or Cybertruck). It too is awkward in bends, but not as much as not having fixed position indicator controls or physical drive selector.

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