Cybertruck Breaks Down in Mojave + F-150 Raptor Size Comparison + ~350mile Range Prediction?

[HaulingAss]

500 miles is needed to make the Cybertruck comparable to ICE trucks when towing. Anything less will make it as useless as the Lightning.

Good thing long-distance towing is not a primary use case for 1/2 ton pickups in N. America! The number of people that use F-150's and Sierra 1500's to tow long distance is pretty small. Most RV'ers are smart enough to move up to a heavier duty solution, if they plan to tow big loads on the open road.

In other words, long distance towing of big loads is a very small percentage of miles covered by the most common class of truck (1/2 ton) and doesn't need to be solved for the Cybertruck to be very useful to millions of truck owners.

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[Baldey]

Let me put it this way. I will buy whatever the tri motor is. But i will be real sad, if all 20k gets me is +1 motor..

 

[lowtek]

Long distance heavy towing isn't really a big thing in this class of pickup.

You see F150's towing boats to the lake, lawncare equipment around town, trips to home depot, etc. Any distance towing is generally going to be a super duty or something similar.

Also, let's not forget that even gas trucks in this class also loose significant range when towing. It's more drastic with electric, but not exclusive to electric. A 16mpg gasoline truck will get 8-10mpg when towing.

This is an exhausting topic ... "oh, the Cybertruck didn't re-invent towing as we know it so Telsla won't sell any" ... please

A 500 mile trim would be a game changer, but battery supply won't allow it and why would they, no substantial competition (yet).

Edit: Also, 500 miles is most certainly possible, even with 18650 cells ... these electric motors are significantly dialed down ... the Plaid+ comes to mind, canceled, due to battery supply constraints.

 

[cvalue13]

One thing we agree on, is we don't know shit. not even the test engineers know.

that’s not true.

you just don’t know what you’re speaking of

people driving the Ct around are not all “tear engineers”

some of them aren’t even normal Tesla employees

 

[cevert]

Good thing long-distance towing is not a primary use case for 1/2 ton pickups in N. America! The number of people that use F-150's and Sierra 1500's to tow long distance is pretty small. Most RV'ers are smart enough to move up to a heavier duty solution, if they plan to tow big loads on the open road.

In other words, long distance towing of big loads is a very small percentage of miles covered by the most common class of truck (1/2 ton) and doesn't need to be solved for the Cybertruck to be very useful to millions of truck owners.

Next time you’re on the highway, count the number of 1/2 ton trucks towing a boat or something similar…

 

[Baldey]

A 500 mile trim would be a game changer, but battery supply won't allow it and why would they, no substantial competition (yet).

Edit: Also, 500 miles is most certainly possible, even with 18650 cells ... these electric motors are significantly dialed down ... the Plaid+ comes to mind, canceled, due to battery supply constraints.

Yet. I guess the CT did beat the 1500REV to market, but they are still advertising a 500 mile range, this year...
"350 miles with the standard 168 kilowatt-hour battery pack or a manufacturer’s estimate targeting an Unsurpassed-in-Class up to 500 miles total driving range( Disclosure1) with the optional 229 kilowatt-hour large battery pack"

There are two possible reasons Tesla is guarding the range as a bigger secret than the atom bomb.. Either is is so low it is embarrassing (350 miles would be embarrassing) , or Tesla is ahead and doesn't want to give away too much to the competition.

Again, no one knows.. but i am going with the latter option.

PS: cell density is different from pack density. Again, we know nothing at this point...

 

[Regenshire]

Let me put it this way. I will buy whatever the tri motor is. But i will be real sad, if all 20k gets me is +1 motor..

I agree. I personally don't want to pay 20k for an extra motor and maybe some better brakes. The battery size increase was the real draw for the announced tri-motor version.

If they have performance version with the same range as the dual motor at launch, I would hope its not an extra 20k. Looking at current pricing though, it might well be +20k if you base it off of the Model S Plaid price difference.

If you look at Tesla's current product stack, there is a $5,000 increase to go to a performance version with the same battery size for the Model 3 and $4,000 for the Model Y, but both of those are just using better binned versions of the same motor.

The Model S and Model X have a $15,000 price difference for the Plaid versions with the Carbon-Sleeved 3 motor configuration. If they are copying how these two are configured, which makes sense since it likely using the same motors, then we might be approaching 20k simply to get a superfast version of the Cybertruck.

 

[Baldey]

that’s not true.

you just don’t know what you’re speaking of

people driving the Ct around are not all “tear engineers”

some of them aren’t even normal Tesla employees

I definitely do not.
Some of them are prime ministers, or even EM himself! And i don't think that he knows either..

 

[lowtek]

Yet. I guess the CT did beat the 1500REV to market, but they are still advertising a 500 mile range, this year...
"350 miles with the standard 168 kilowatt-hour battery pack or a manufacturer’s estimate targeting an Unsurpassed-in-Class up to 500 miles total driving range( Disclosure1) with the optional 229 kilowatt-hour large battery pack"

There are two possible reasons Tesla is guarding the range as a bigger secret than the atom bomb.. Either is is so low it is embarrassing (350 miles would be embarrassing) , or Tesla is ahead and doesn't want to give away too much to the competition.

Again, no one knows.. but i am going with the latter option.

PS: cell density is different from pack density. Again, we know nothing at this point...

I hope we see someone else mass produce a 500 mile truck, Tesla would immediately release a 500 mile trim, which is what I want .. a 500 mile performance Cybertruck.

But Tesla has captured most the battery supply so if they are constrained imagine what everybody else is having to deal with.

Just saw that GM switched to cylindrical cells instead of pouches ...

I want Ford to get it together and really compete with Tesla on EVs. I'm a Ford fan, have had Ford trucks my entire life. Competition would just make everything better.

 

[lowtek]

re-read the post

People are stuck in a 2019 unveil framework, where they assume that any CyberTruck with 3 motors is a materially different variant as was shown in 2019

the point of the post quoted above is that this line of thinking/assumptions is incorrect

there is a CT on Nov 30 that *happens* to have three motors - but it is *not* the “Tri Motor” people have been thinking of for 4 years

instead, in the 2019 framework, this is a “Dual” that happens to have 3 motors in order to make the “Dual” have a ‘performance’ version

just like how the Model S has a “Plaid” version that adds a 3rd motor for that purpose

Tesla is known to take advantage of economies of scale, it makes perfect sense they will use the same powertrain as the Plaid in the tri-motor performance variant. Dual rear motors in a single case and single front motor. We may not get carbon sleeved rotors but I bet it doesn't vary much from what they are already successfully using.

 

[Mini2nut]

The Cybertruck was designed to compete with the F150. It's slightly narrower than a Raptor.

The Cybertruck will not require DOT exterior lighting since it's under 80" wide. This will also help reduce production costs since the truck will not require additional lighting or a longer wiring harness.

 

[SolarWizard]

. Dual will have an appropriately size battery, and the tri will be bigger. People that are saying the tri will have less range and the same capacity, are beyond saving.

I’m quite confident that the same size battery will be offered for both through 2024

 

[Baldey]

The Model S and Model X have a $15,000 price difference for the Plaid versions with the Carbon-Sleeved 3 motor configuration. If they are copying how these two are configured, which makes sense since it likely using the same motors, then we might be approaching 20k simply to get a superfast version of the Cybertruck.

The motors are not the only difference though. Although the Plaid has less range, it has a 15% bigger battery (100kw vs 85kw). It also has ceramic breaks now, and a few other bells and whistles. Not to mention it is the quickest production car in the world.. Worth +20k to me.

Tri motor truck is just the "performance" version of the dual. Elon said that a Plaid CT will be his daily driver, but i don't think we've seen one yet. Pretty sure that will be a new exciting quad motor trim they will add in future, when demand dries up a little.

Being produced from the same factory and using much of the same tooling, i would bet the CTs pricing will be closer to that of the Y. Performance is only 4k more than the standard, and 10k more than the base. 20k sounds more reasonable for the CT, to go from base to performance. Will probably need about twice the capacity of the Y to get the same numbers.. So +20k is right on target for + motor AND + capacity..

 

[Baldey]

I’m quite confident that the same size battery will be offered for both through 2024

I thought you owned a solar business.. Do you not size your battery appropriately for the system?

 

[cvalue13]

I definitely do not.
Some of them are prime ministers, or even EM himself! And i don't think that he knows either..

maybe I’m just misunderstanding what youmre saying “no one”, even Musk, knows

I thought we were talking about the headline max range of the truck being released in about 30 days

that the trucks on the road have a modified UI to show only battery percentage, so that the info isn’t released until planned, does not mean no one at Tesla knows the expected target range

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