Cybertruck Range: Losing the Story

[ColdRolledSS]

Pretty wild - a little over a month ago I was seriously bumming that I hadn’t put in my reservation sooner (put reservation in May 2020). Between the range and price, I’m actually pretty happy now. Hoping both will improve by the time it’s my turn to order!

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[Woodrick]

And now it is in Atlanta lol. Was thinking about road tripping out there to see it. Not sure how in-demand the line is.

I went over the weekend. I think that the crowds were less than when it first got there, but the worse that I saw was a few minute wait.

The Alpharetta store is small and the Cybertruck is the only thing in it.

 

[canyoncarver]

This is a good post and is why I was a bit frustrated when Elon, on Joe Rogan's podcast, was asked about range he dismissed it as a "non issue".

It is still very much an issue for many drivers and certainly in the case of the truck, with a range number so much smaller than originally promised will pose a real problem for mass adoption.

The CT will meet MY needs since I don't take many extended trips or regularly haul stuff.

For someone who expects to spend the serious amount of money the CT costs and get something approaching parity to other similar trucks (4x4 Tundra is about $50,000) while doing all the normal truck things they do.... it's going to be very upsetting to them.

 

[Woodrick]

This is a good post and is why I was a bit frustrated when Elon, on Joe Rogan's podcast, was asked about range he dismissed it as a "non issue".

It is still very much an issue for many drivers and certainly in the case of the truck, with a range number so much smaller than originally promised will pose a real problem for mass adoption.

The CT will meet MY needs since I don't take many extended trips or regularly haul stuff.

For someone who expects to spend the serious amount of money the CT costs and get something approaching parity to other similar trucks (4x4 Tundra is about $50,000) while doing all the normal truck things they do.... it's going to be very upsetting to them.

It is an issue for many, but the real issue for these is a that they have Range Anxiety.
And then they read what the news reports and that's battery range. When was the last time that you worried about tank size and calculated the range of an ICE?
And that's because people worry about there not being enough charging locations. But more specifically, they have no idea where the charging locations are.

But then again it comes back to most people don't take long trips anyway. I think the number of road trips on average is near 1. Doesn't really matter, because 95+% of the time is spent near home where you plug in every evening. Sure it's a little more challenging for apartment owners, but that's getting better.

I honestly don't think that I need 500-mile range. I just finished at 2400-mile trip and didn't need it. The only reason why I contemplate it (but am waiting on making the determination) is for towing some things. I know my boat severely impacted the range of my Model Y when I towed it to Florida in 2022. But even then, I made it.

Superchargers and othe DC Fast Chargers are blooming like wild flowers. I just had one popup near me a few weeks ago. I saw another one being built. I know of a few more that getting close.

But charging doesn't have to be as ubiquitous as gas stations. I don't need one while at home. A LOT of them are going to go out of business, to be replaced by home charging.

 

[canyoncarver]

It is an issue for many, but the real issue for these is a that they have Range Anxiety.
And then they read what the news reports and that's battery range. When was the last time that you worried about tank size and calculated the range of an ICE?
And that's because people worry about there not being enough charging locations. But more specifically, they have no idea where the charging locations are.

But then again it comes back to most people don't take long trips anyway. I think the number of road trips on average is near 1. Doesn't really matter, because 95+% of the time is spent near home where you plug in every evening. Sure it's a little more challenging for apartment owners, but that's getting better.

I honestly don't think that I need 500-mile range. I just finished at 2400-mile trip and didn't need it. The only reason why I contemplate it (but am waiting on making the determination) is for towing some things. I know my boat severely impacted the range of my Model Y when I towed it to Florida in 2022. But even then, I made it.

Superchargers and othe DC Fast Chargers are blooming like wild flowers. I just had one popup near me a few weeks ago. I saw another one being built. I know of a few more that getting close.

But charging doesn't have to be as ubiquitous as gas stations. I don't need one while at home. A LOT of them are going to go out of business, to be replaced by home charging.

You are making a lot of excuses when the reality is that 1/2 the country experiences cold temperatures for 3-6 months out of the year.

You are making excuses when a sizable (probably 10-20%) of truck owners use their vehicles to haul things or regularly drive longer distances than people drive when commuting to work or shopping.

The range extender gets people part of the way towards what they want, but with the range extender you are looking at $100K and lose 1/3 of the truck bed capacity to get it.

 

[Woodrick]

You are making a lot of excuses when the reality is that 1/2 the country experiences cold temperatures for 3-6 months out of the year.

You are making excuses when a sizable (probably 10-20%) of truck owners use their vehicles to haul things or regularly drive longer distances than people drive when commuting to work or shopping.

The range extender gets people part of the way towards what they want, but with the range extender you are looking at $100K and lose 1/3 of the truck bed capacity to get it.

You have a Model Y. How many times have YOU needed (not desired) more range?

 

[canyoncarver]

You have a Model Y. How many times have YOU needed (not desired) more range?

The use case for a Model Y and for a truck are completely different.

When we take trips to the mountains, which is not that far away, I take our Honda since I can;

1. refuel it anywhere in minutes without struggling to find charging stations.
2. carry extra fuel in gerry cans for any unexpected situation that comes up with getting into a low fuel situation on back roads, etc.

There are enormous compromises for me personally with choosing a CT but I'm willing to get one because I have niche use cases (driving on rough roads and trails for access to fishing, hunting and recreational areas) and believe I can jump through the hoops needed to make it work (pre-condition battery before departure, carefully choosing routes and locations where there is charging infrastructure, etc.). I love Tesla from a functionality/enjoyment perspective and CT has some unique features I am interested in (integrated locking cover, etc.)

Virtually NOBODY I know will consider a CT because it can't do the things that their gas truck can do.

Look at the number of people in this forum who are concerned with keeping fingerprints off of the CT.

These are not truck people.

 

[Woodrick]

The use case for a Model Y and for a truck are completely different.

When we take trips to the mountains, which is not that far away, I take our Honda since I can;

1. refuel it anywhere in minutes without struggling to find charging stations.
2. carry extra fuel in gerry cans for any unexpected situation that comes up with getting into a low fuel situation on back roads, etc.

There are enormous compromises for me personally with choosing a CT but I'm willing to get one because I have niche use cases (driving on rough roads and trails for access to fishing, hunting and recreational areas) and believe I can jump through the hoops needed to make it work (pre-condition battery before departure, carefully choosing routes and locations where there is charging infrastructure, etc.). I love Tesla from a functionality/enjoyment perspective and CT has some unique features I am interested in (integrated locking cover, etc.)

Virtually NOBODY I know will consider a CT because it can't do the things that their gas truck can do.

Look at the number of people in this forum who are concerned with keeping fingerprints off of the CT.

These are not truck people.

I have no idea where you are, because you decided to be cute and put your location as Earth.

I just went to Orlando and then to Branson Mo. I can tell you that people take pickups on vacation all the time. That's why so many Crew Cabs are sold.

Taking trips to mountains not that far away and a long way from infrastructure sounds more like Pacific Norhtwest to me. That's a different world, with different concerns than the populated areas of the country.

 

[canyoncarver]

I have no idea where you are, because you decided to be cute and put your location as Earth.

I just went to Orlando and then to Branson Mo. I can tell you that people take pickups on vacation all the time. That's why so many Crew Cabs are sold.

Taking trips to mountains not that far away and a long way from infrastructure sounds more like Pacific Norhtwest to me. That's a different world, with different concerns than the populated areas of the country.

Ah, I see... so YOUR use case in flatland USA means that the use case for the millions of people that live in other parts of the country don't really mean that much.

One thing is for sure, Tesla is going to sell all the CTs they can manufacture for the next couple of years... and perhaps by the time they can saturate that initial part of the market who wants a CT for the cool/chic/fashion factor they will be able to increase the range and lower the price to target the next market segment.

 

[Art O'Connor]

I don't quite remember a promise of range, it was only an expectation.

But the engineers have already indicated they are sill working toward 500 miles with the extended battery.

It's interesting that Chevy is only indicating 400 miles on the Silverado EV. I'd be highly surprised if you get anywhere near that going 75 mph.

And if you want to get back to "man trucks" lets head back to 1970 and the 17 foot truck.


So it appears that you may need to keep your existing truck in your existing garage.

You need to watch Elon's 2019 introduction. " Tesla CEO Elon Musk just unveiled the company’s first electric pickup truck, also known as Cybertruck, at an event in Los Angeles, California. The truck will come in three versions with 250 miles, 300 miles, and 500 miles of range, respectively. " Right now, you can get 400 miles out of CT; but, with an optional "Range Extender": an auxiliary battery that uses up a significant portion of the already small bed. Chevy does not exaggerate its mileage figures. Tesla has been sued for over exaggeration. That 450 miles I cited comes from independent third party testing in real world conditions, such as freeway driving. I love the looks of CT, I just wish it were more of a truck and less of a road queen. I have seen the Chevy on the road. It is only slightly different from all the other pickups on the road. Real hard to spot at speed. You will see the CT coming from miles away, but I already have two road queens: a '62 Vette and a '67 Porsche 912. I don't need another.

 

[drift]

You are making a lot of excuses when the reality is that 1/2 the country experiences cold temperatures for 3-6 months out of the year.

You are making excuses when a sizable (probably 10-20%) of truck owners use their vehicles to haul things or regularly drive longer distances than people drive when commuting to work or shopping.

The range extender gets people part of the way towards what they want, but with the range extender you are looking at $100K and lose 1/3 of the truck bed capacity to get it.

So you're saying that 90% of the truck owners don't haul things so range is not a problem. By the way there is a difference between facts and excuses.

 

[Woodrick]

You need to watch Elon's 2019 introduction. " Tesla CEO Elon Musk just unveiled the company’s first electric pickup truck, also known as Cybertruck, at an event in Los Angeles, California. The truck will come in three versions with 250 miles, 300 miles, and 500 miles of range, respectively. " Right now, you can get 400 miles out of CT; but, with an optional "Range Extender": an auxiliary battery that uses up a significant portion of the already small bed. Chevy does not exaggerate its mileage figures. Tesla has been sued for over exaggeration. That 450 miles I cited comes from independent third party testing in real world conditions, such as freeway driving. I love the looks of CT, I just wish it were more of a truck and less of a road queen. I have seen the Chevy on the road. It is only slightly different from all the other pickups on the road. Real hard to spot at speed. You will see the CT coming from miles away, but I already have two road queens: a '62 Vette and a '67 Porsche 912. I don't need another.

Can you not understand that design goals are indeed goals? Not facts? Lots of things have changed since then, there was this global pandemic and Significant issues with electronic availability, actually any parts, and a big jump in inflation.

And there's no way that I'm going to trust anyone's numbers on the Silverado until it's in production and a number of hands.

I indeed see
Chevy upgrades Silverado EV electric pickup to 450 miles of range | Electrek
and 2024 Chevrolet Silverado EV Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com)

So why does Chevy disagree with it?
First-Ever Silverado EV: Electric Truck | Chevrolet
Available GM-Estimated
400-Mile Range

Or maybe Chevy is coming to some realizations as well? Like bringing it to 500 miles cuts off a large number of sales?

 

[Art O'Connor]

Can you not understand that design goals are indeed goals? Not facts? Lots of things have changed since then, there was this global pandemic and Significant issues with electronic availability, actually any parts, and a big jump in inflation.

And there's no way that I'm going to trust anyone's numbers on the Silverado until it's in production and a number of hands.

I indeed see
Chevy upgrades Silverado EV electric pickup to 450 miles of range | Electrek
and 2024 Chevrolet Silverado EV Review, Pricing, and Specs (caranddriver.com)

So why does Chevy disagree with it?
First-Ever Silverado EV: Electric Truck | Chevrolet
Available GM-Estimated
400-Mile Range

Or maybe Chevy is coming to some realizations as well? Like bringing it to 500 miles cuts off a large number of sales?

As I said, Tesla over estimates, Chevy under estimates.

I believe the C&D and Electrek reviews were from early last summer. Other reviews are newer and feature real wold driving. JD Powers has one from December 8, but they did not test the range.

 

[Woodrick]

As I said, Tesla over estimates, Chevy under estimates.

I believe the C&D and Electrek reviews were from early last summer. Other reviews are newer and feature real wold driving. JD Powers has one from December 8, but they did not test the range.

You do realize that they weren't reviews don't you?

GM announced that the Chevrolet Silverado EV WT electric pickup will have 450 miles of range on a single charge – significantly higher than expected.

A large battery pack is said to provide up to 450 miles of range per charge and DC fast-charging tech can juice the battery with 100 miles of range in just 10 minutes.


Hence I see Chevy decreasing the range from what they told the magazines.

But, as always, I don't trust anything until it ships. ALL the manufacturers have promised a lot more than they have delivered.

It's easy to get 500 miles of range on a vehicle, you just add enough batteries. But as Tesla has shown 150 miles may cost $16,000 for a large truck and that's a LOT.
And the Silverado won't have as good of a friction coefficient as the Cybertruck does, so it will need even more batteries.

 

[cyberhunter]

And the Silverado won't have as good of a friction coefficient as the Cybertruck does, so it will need even more batteries.

False. The silverado is lower drag coefficient than the cybertruck:
"The EV's futuristic design contributes to a slippery drag coefficient of 0.33, making it the most aerodynamic GM truck extant, but there's no mistaking this rig for anything but a Silverado."

For those not paying attention, CT is 0.34.

I think the CT is a technological marvel. It has a low drag coefficient despite being so angular, but others are better because of their smooth surfaces. All that aside, this thread and others have shown a bit of fanboyism vs. reality. Range anxiety is a dismissive term. I think people are using it to act like concerns about lower range are unfounded. Fact is range concerns are real because trucks are put under load like no other class of EV. ICE trucks lose range, yes. They start with a full tank fuel and range in the 500 to 700 mile range. Put payload in the bed and that dips just a little. Not much to be honest. Tow and it dips, but maybe 35% reduction in range based on my experience. Pull a huge boxy travel trailer and it gets worse, but lets stay with payload in bed and maybe low drag utility trailer towing.

We get it that road tripping can be done in an EV and you don't need massive range to get from one urban area to another, even cross country. Plan your routes, use more stops and "quick" charge sessions are how to do it. Tesla has done a fantastic job putting dependable charging infrastructure along major thoroughfares. It is less convenient than with an ICE vehicle but not enough to be an issue. Issue is there are vast areas of the USA that are completely rural. Even in those rural routes, it is typically doable if the EV hits it's target range of about 300 miles per absolutely completely full charge. The issue many point out is that a truck is meant to haul payload and/or tow. No reviews of loaded payload and the hit to range have been conducted on the CT. We are all hoping that Kyle Connor / out of spec will post some soon and we can get some real world truck use cases and what to expect. Other trucks that hit the EV market show massive hits in range when payload is added. The hype/promise of 500+ mile range was absolutely intended to take into account the range hit that will occur to an EV truck more than any other vehicle class due to the extra weight and drag they will routinely encounter if used for their designed purpose. A Model Y doesn't ever see a huge payload beyond curb weight, so comparing some cross country trip in a model Y to a truck used as more than a mall crawler will routinely be off base. All the videos I've seen so far about the CT from the foundation buyers are basically people's first trucks. Not a single one did the owner put payload in the bed and show off bed utility or show range while the truck was loaded. They are replacing some economy car with the CT or buying the truck as more a novelty. If that is the actual target market, then the CT has completely missed the mark. The target task was to revolutionize working trucks to join the EV world. And remember this: to get people to change from product A that they are comfortable with, to product B which they are not familiar with, then product B has to be demonstrably better than product A. If product B is inferior in one or more areas, then people won't buy it.

So please we all need to be mindful of the end goal. It shouldn't be to apologize, make excuses, or defend the vehicle. It should be to tout the virtues and the shortfalls. No product is perfect. We should be intellectually honest and respectful that not everyone has the same use case. If someone is replacing a model Y with a CT to basically be a bigger model Y, then that is great. Good for them, the CT can easily do that. If someone is replacing a mall crawler F150 to be a better mall crawler, we are getting somewhere and the CT can fit that bill. But if someone is actually putting heavy payload in the bed of their truck and/or doing light towing on the regular, we know the CT has the capabilities to do that pretty well, but we don't know what trip length we should expect. What is that trip length where a driver can expect it to be convenient vs. when it becomes not something you want to do because the trip is now much harder or not possible vs. what an ICE vehicle can do. Determining that limit is all I concern myself with when I watch CT videos. I've already seen Kyle Conner do videos about his Rivian. Towing short he loved it. Towing cross country he said he would never do it again. I fear the CT is just a slightly bigger Rivian with some unique tech in it, but would be a "never doing that again" experience. I still hold out hope it could fit my more common use cases, but that lower range number is a huge red flag for my use cases.

My most common use case: I need to be able to drive with 2000 lbs in the bed, a couple passengers and some travel gear. I need to do that using the climate control in 105F Texas sun or while driving through occasional rain or during cold weather events (not snow). I need the truck to make it 180 miles going fast (speed limits are 75 to 80 mph majority of the trip) with that climate control and extra payload, while also gaining 1300 ft of elevation. My current truck can do that, and return and not even refuel. I just need the CT to do that trip one way and recharge 12 to 24 hours on 240 volt plug before returning with just the passengers and gear. With the 500 mile range CT, I was confident I could make that trip easily and really enjoy it. Possibly even make that trip both ways without recharging if I took it just a little easy on the speed. I had the 500 mile tri motor on reservation. Now the dual motor is the best range option with a 340 mile estimate. That vehicle if I put my stated use case trip on ABRP, it goes from 90% charge to 5 or 10% and I'm not confident climate control is taken into consideration. I wouldn't want to stress the batteries (or myself) like that over and over. "You can just get the range extender". Well, then how are you supposed to fit 2000 lbs of cargo in what is effectively a 4' long miniature truck bed. It's just disappointing is all. Tesla fell short of the specs by quite a bit in this regard. All the other incredible things are trumped by this one aspect for me and my intended purpose of the vehicle. I'm hoping that by the time my reservation comes up we will see an advancement in battery tech that puts these vehicles into 450+ miles per full charge without compromising the bed space and that we can use the full charge regularly (up to 100% and down to say 5%) without degrading the battery.
That is another thing with current EV. When they give range estimate, you are talking about range that will actually hurt the battery pack. ICE vehicle is not hurt by full tank or going to near empty. So usable EV range is actually already starting at a lower than mfg estimate unless you want to trash your vehicle. The reasons above is why an BEV truck for me needs to have a high range estimate. My use case above that I would be doing around 25 times a year is estimated to be roughly a 100 kWhr trip. Can't defeat physics. It's possible for the dual range CT to make the trip, but maybe at the expense of degrading the estimated 123 kWhr pack. I wish there was a 150 to 175 kWhr pack in the CT without taking up space in the payload area. That's all I want. Elon make it happen

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