Cybertruck Range: Losing the Story

[Art O'Connor]

2012 - GM started development of Bolt.
2015 - GM showed Bolt concept
January 2016 - The production version of the Chevrolet Bolt was unveiled at the 2016 Consumer Electronics Show ( CES ) in Las Vegas.
mid-October 2016 - Ordering began in California and Oregon.
November 2016 - Production began.
A total of 579 units of Chevrolet Bolt were delivered in 2016.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Bolt

Chevrolet Bolt was in production and being delivered almost a year before the promise Mary Barra made in Nov 2017.

Where is the contradiction?

The way GM is currently pulling back investments in EVs I don't expect them to have 20 zero-emissions vehicles even by end of 2027.

Neither Chevrolet Bolt nor Chevrolet Bolt EUV got EPA range of 300 miles.
Chevrolet Bolt - EPA range of 259 miles ( 417 km)
Chevrolet Bolt EUV - EPA range of 247 miles ( 398 km)

In 2023, Mary Barra finally admitted GM would not have profitable, affordable EVs before 2029/2030 and maybe not even then.

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General Motors to ramp up electric vehicle plans, 20 new models planned over next 6 years.
Published Oct 2 2017
By Phil LeBeau
https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/02/gm-...e-plans-with-20-models-over-next-6-years.html

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Published: Nov 16, 2017
GM CEO Barra: Profitable, Affordable 300-Mile Electric Vehicles by 2021
GM is planning to launch 20 zero-emissions vehicles by 2023.
By Bengt Halvorson
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a...ffordable-300-mile-electric-vehicles-by-2021/

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GM CEO says Tesla has the lead in electric cars, doesn’t see profitable $30-40K EVs until end of decade or maybe even later.
By Fred Lambert | Jun 5 2023
https://electrek.co/2023/06/05/gm-ceo-tesla-lead-electric-cars-no-profitable-30-40k-evs/

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Wikipedia has articles on the WT, Lightning and CT. The articles on the CT and Lightning appear to have been updated within the last several months. The WT article appears to date from 2022.

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[Art O'Connor]

Why in the heck would a "real truck" need 4 motors? It seems that over 50% of them only have 1 today.

I have no problem believing that the Cybertruck will haul my boat 500 miles from Atlanta to Tampa. That's going to be easy for it.

I'm sorry, but the Volt was a hybrid, not an electric. The Chevy Bolt was in 2017 well after the Model S and Model X.
And if you believe that the Bolt it more functional than a Tesla, you don't know what the Tesla can do.

And to top it off, they really don't have any EVs to sell, except for some leftover Bolts.

Chevy has "promised" up to 20,000 towing capacity. Tesla, 14,000. You are not going to get to those numbers with two or three motors. With four motors, you have one for each wheel. With three motors, one axle has to share a motor.

 

[Art O'Connor]

Yes, GM has talked alot about EVs for a long time but their actions show they have never been serious.

1997–1998 Chevy S-10 - Sales 492
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_S-10_EV

1998-2000 EV1 - GM refused most sales and only leased.
Model years 1997 (Gen I): 660 units 1999 (Gen II): 457 units
GM recalled almost all & crushed them despite intense lessee lobbying to save the EV1.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1

Early 2000 - GM sold battery patents to fossil fuel company that GM had to know the fossil fuel company intended to bury the tech (fossil fuel company actually sued Toyota to stop them from producing EVs in early 2000s).

In 2017 they promised to have over 15 models of EVs by 2023. They finally released a few (3-5?) models and even by Jan 2024 none have shipped in volume.

2024 - Cancelling the only relatively high volume and affordable EV they ever made, Bolt/Bolt EUV, without an immediate replacement and only more PROMISES of a updated model in the future).

2022 - 2024 Hummer EV -
As of July 2023, 16,088 units have been produced.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GMC_Hummer_EV

2023 - 2024 Cadillac Lyriq
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_Lyriq


For years they claimed they would be THE EV leader by end 2025, beating Tesla, but current 3rd party estimates are that GM EVs will be shipping at less than 20% of Tesla's volume in 2025.
In 2021 I was rolling on the floor laughing at GM CEO, Mary Barra's claim they would beat Tesla in 2025.

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GM can 'absolutely' catch Tesla by 2025: CEO Mary Barra
Oct 27, 2021
CNBC Television

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General Motors temporarily stops sales of Chevy Blazer EV over software issues
WOAY TV
Dec 27, 2023

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Among other things Mary has done, GM sopped taking reservations for the eSilverado. Like Tesla, you used to be able to put $100 down and be on a reservation list. Not anymore. Perhaps the list got so long Mary ("EV's are not in demand") was embarrassed? I am guessing my RST reservation will come up about the same time as my CT. Decision time!

 

[Woodrick]

Chevy has "promised" up to 20,000 towing capacity. Tesla, 14,000. You are not going to get to those numbers with two or three motors. With four motors, you have one for each wheel. With three motors, one axle has to share a motor.

You are making a HUGE assumption in the motor size.

Semi | Tesla

82,000 lbs off of 3 motors, and if I remember correctly, it normally just uses one.

20,000 lbs off of a single motor is quite easy.

 

[RVAC]

Even the tracker data showed that less than half the reservations were for Tri-Motor. That's a minority. And I think the reservation tracker almost certainly leaned towards Tesla enthusiasts who were more affluent and more likely to buy the top-spec Cybertruck.

Now give us your reasons why you think it's false that a minority of reservations were for tri-motor.

48% vs 52% is, for all intents and purposes, an even split. The suggestion that reservations of the 500mi version represented a small niche is disingenuous.

 

[HaulingAss]

48% vs 52% is, for all intents and purposes, an even split. The suggestion that reservations of the 500mi version represented a small niche is disingenuous.

But I never implied Tri-motor reservations were a niche. I said they were less than half.

I also know the real-world reservations do not accurately line up with the reservation tracker data because it is comprised of Cybertruck enthusiasts who are much more likely to order the highest trim with the most power and features, damn the cost. In the real world, reservationists are more practical. This means the Dual Motor, at $20K less, almost certainly had an even higher percentage of reservations than the tracker reflected.

I would appreciate it if, in the future, you avoid the temptation to twist my words into something that was never said or implied. Minority means less than half, it does not mean niche.

Now, would you address the real elephant in the room:

Give us your reasons why you think it's false that a minority of reservations were for tri-motor.

 

[HitchHiker71]

You are making a HUGE assumption in the motor size.

Semi | Tesla

82,000 lbs off of 3 motors, and if I remember correctly, it normally just uses one.

20,000 lbs off of a single motor is quite easy.

The Semi doesn't really normally use one motor. It can disengage up to two motors dependent upon load and circumstances - so for example once up to speed on a smooth level surface it can drop down to 1-2 motors to maintain speed under load to decrease power consumption.

The PMMs in the CT don't ever disengage AFAIK. The dual motor CT uses a PMM in the rear and an induction motor in the front - the induction motor can "disengage" for lack of a better term - by design - this is actually how the MY/M3 work as well - you can see this if you use third party products that show whether the front induction motor on the MY/M3 is or is not engaged - otherwise the MY/M3 use the PMM in the rear for all propulsion and only use the front induction motor when needed for additional traction and/or propulsion. The trimotor CT uses dual induction motors in the rear and a PMM in the front, so in theory at least it may disengage the two rear induction motors when feasible. I don't recall in the videos exactly how the CT is setup with all of this in mind -but if the other Tesla models already do this - I'm fairly sure the CT will do the same.

 

[Woodrick]

The Semi doesn't really normally use one motor. It can disengage up to two motors dependent upon load and circumstances - so for example once up to speed on a smooth level surface it can drop down to 1-2 motors to maintain speed under load to decrease power consumption.

The PMMs in the CT don't ever disengage AFAIK. The dual motor CT uses a PMM in the rear and an induction motor in the front - the induction motor can "disengage" for lack of a better term - by design - this is actually how the MY/M3 work as well - you can see this if you use third party products that show whether the front induction motor on the MY/M3 is or is not engaged - otherwise the MY/M3 use the PMM in the rear for all propulsion and only use the front induction motor when needed for additional traction and/or propulsion. The trimotor CT uses dual induction motors in the rear and a PMM in the front, so in theory at least it may disengage the two rear induction motors when feasible. I don't recall in the videos exactly how the CT is setup with all of this in mind -but if the other Tesla models already do this - I'm fairly sure the CT will do the same.

Isn't that pretty much what I said? I was slightly simplifying because the OP was saying that you need 4 motors to haul 14,000 lbs.

But thanks for the extra clarification.

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