Cybertruck was the 5th bestselling EV in 2024

[voxel]

Funny stuff. Maybe you are not aware that legacy auto reports their trucks as sold as soon as they hit dealership lots.

That's not true for most carmakers. This is more false info like "all EV batteries catch on fire" BS. They have separate production numbers from sales numbers.

i.e Stellantis (Ford is the same)

i.e https://media.stellantisnorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=21274

"FCA US’s reported vehicle sales represent unit sales of vehicles to retail customers, deliveries of vehicles to fleet customers and to others such as FCA US’s employees and retirees as well as vehicles used for marketing. Most of these reported sales reflect retail sales made by dealers out of their own inventory of vehicles previously purchased by them from FCA US. Reported vehicle units sales do not correspond to FCA US’s reported revenues, which are based on FCA US’s sale and delivery of vehicles, and typically recognized upon shipment to the dealer or end customer. As announced on July 26, 2016, FCA US has modified its methodology for monthly sales reporting as follows:

• Sales to retail customers by dealers in the U.S. are derived from the New Vehicle Delivery Report (“NVDR”) system and are determined as the sum of (A) all sales recorded by dealers during the month net of all unwound transactions recorded to the end of that month (whether the original sale was recorded in the current month or any prior month); plus (B) all sales of vehicles during that month attributable to past unwinds that had previously been reversed in determining monthly sales (in the current or prior months).
  
• Fleet sales are recorded upon the shipment of the vehicle by FCA US to the customer or end user.
  
• Other retail sales are recorded either (A) when the sale is recorded in the NVDR system (for sales by dealers in Puerto Rico and limited sales made through distributors that submit NVDRs in the same manner as for sales by U.S. dealers) or (B) upon receipt of a similar delivery notification (for vehicles for which NVDRs are not entered such as vehicles for FCA employees).

"

Now... there have been shady problems like dealers being nudged by OEMs to buy vehicles to put them as service loaners to juice sales numbers.

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[TyPope]

Not that this means anything but the last snow we got was 8 days prior to this picture I took.

 

[voxel]

I really doubt this is accurate.

Then EVs all die after 2-3 years because the batteries explode and you can't drive more than 100 miles without charging... which takes 3-4 hours I've heard, right?

Ford reports retail sales.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...025/01/03/fourth-quarter-full-year-sales.html

https://s201.q4cdn.com/693218008/files/doc_news/2025/Jan/03/Ford-U-S-Q4-2024-Sales-Release.pdf

Public companies don't lie. It's in their press releases.

 

[SCTesla]

Then EVs all die after 2-3 years because the batteries explode and you can't drive more than 100 miles without charging... which takes 3-4 hours I've heard, right?

Ford reports retail sales.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...025/01/03/fourth-quarter-full-year-sales.html

https://s201.q4cdn.com/693218008/files/doc_news/2025/Jan/03/Ford-U-S-Q4-2024-Sales-Release.pdf

Public companies don't lie. It's in their press releases.

They aren't lying, Ford sold 33,510 total Ford Lightnings last year. That was my point the entire time. You can look at their production numbers vs. monthly sales (Jan/Feb) to back that up as well.

Ford didn't sell 33,510 direct to retail customers as originally stated by YDR37 and then whatever else to wholesale. Ford stated themselves that 52% of sales are wholesale. They are factoring in total sold from wholesale and to direct customers.

 

[dalton108]

Public companies don't lie. It's in their press releases.

You are so right! Completely unrelated, I have some shares of Enron I would like to sell you. ?

 

[voxel]

You are so right! I have some shares of Enron I would like to sell you. ?

And Enron (or Theranos) doesn't exist anymore.... your point?

Ford/Stellantis are legacy carmakers who don't need to fake numbers. Too many activist shareholders.

 

[SCTesla]

And Enron (or Theranos) doesn't exist anymore.... your point?

Ford/Stellantis are legacy carmakers who don't need to fake numbers. Too many activist shareholders.

They likely aren't en masse (I, too have heard of Ford specific dealerships being forced to buy loaners at the end of the year). Some are just misreading what Ford said or the concept of retail vs wholesale.

 

[voxel]

They aren't lying, Ford sold 33,510 total Ford Lightnings last year. That was my point the entire time. You can look at their production numbers vs. monthly sales (Jan/Feb) to back that up as well.

Ford didn't sell 33,510 direct to retail customers as originally stated by YDR37 and then whatever else to wholesale. Ford stated themselves that 52% of sales are wholesale. They are factoring in total sold from wholesale and to direct customers.

The Lighting had a BLOWOUT Q4. I tried to buy three different Lightning Flashes (by trading in the Bronco) in Dec and each one was sold the day or the day before I arrived at the dealership. Ford dealers have rows and rows of Escapes and Broncos but almost no Lightnings because of incentives (0% APR) that caused folks to buy almost all stock on the lot. The Lightnings they do have are the $95K Platinums. When I began looking in Nov/Dec... each dealer had 5-10 on the lot... but by end of Dec... zilch.

 

[dalton108]

And Enron (or Theranos) doesn't exist anymore.... your point?

Ford/Stellantis are legacy carmakers who don't need to fake numbers. Too many activist shareholders.

My point was that you made an overly-broad statement, I didn’t think it was confusing.

Is Volkswagen still in business? What about Exxon? In Electrify America you literally have an entire charging network that is the direct result of a currently existant legacy car manufacturer lying to everybody that would listen! What are we even talking about here?

I gave you a somewhat obvious example, because I was just trying to gently poke fun at what you said because I thought you would recognize that it was overly-broad and get the joke. If you want to maintain this argument and have an actual debate about whether publicly traded corporations lie (which would be ludicrous), I can do this all day.

Stellantis is in deep shit and has every incentive to misrepresent any fact that makes them look better on paper than they are. I’m not saying that they are lying about anything (I don’t think anyone else is saying that either), I’m merely suggesting to you that it is naïve, in the extreme, to suggest that publicly traded companies don’t lie. All you need are eyes and general knowledge of the last 200 years of corporate governance.

 

[SCTesla]

The Lighting had a BLOWOUT Q4. I tried to buy three different Lightning Flashes (by trading in the Bronco) in Dec and each one was sold the day or the day before I arrived at the dealership. Ford dealers have rows and rows of Escapes and Broncos but almost no Lightnings because of incentives (0% APR) that caused folks to buy almost all stock on the lot. The Lightnings they do have are the $95K Platinums. When I began looking in Nov/Dec... each dealer had 5-10 on the lot... but by end of Dec... zilch.

They had a good Q4, yes. Wild because they shut down production on Nov 15.

 

[HaulingAss]

Now... there have been shady problems like dealers being nudged by OEMs to buy vehicles to put them as service loaners to juice sales numbers.

The legacy auto industry and their cohorts are far from transparent, especially when the Ford press release acknowleges they count sales to themselves! That's right, they count the vehicles they purchase for corporate use, including for things like advertising!

We also know that automobile industry rags like Cox Automotive are beholden to the legacy companies they report on, they are all snug together, like bugs in a rug. And Tesla is an outsider that gets no favors.

 

[Carnut12]

Ford already sold 40K prior to 2024 so the initial demand of deposits was gone. I see this number for the Cybertruck as completely underwhelming. Time will tell how it does this year. I love the truck, but clearly the truck buyers as a whole do not.

 

[CTInProcess]

So Amazing! It completely crushed the old stale Lightning!!

The Cybertruck is the Best Selling EV Truck in America, take that Ford

 

[voxel]

The legacy auto industry and their cohorts are far from transparent, especially when the Ford press release acknowleges they count sales to themselves! That's right, they count the vehicles they purchase for corporate use, including for things like advertising!

We also know that automobile industry rags like Cox Automotive are beholden to the legacy companies they report on, they are all snug together, like bugs in a rug. And Tesla is an outsider that gets no favors.

Cox is mildly biased but not an EV hating source. Automotive News.... wow they hate EVs and suck Toyota's rooster. That news source will publish everything anti-EV.

Cox auto just sticks to data and market forecasts and haven't been pushing "EV sales have collapsed" like AutoNews. Tesla doesn't provide Cox with exact weekly/quarterly data so Tesla "days supply" and weekly sales reports are never reported.

 

[CTInProcess]

The legacy auto industry and their cohorts are far from transparent, especially when the Ford press release acknowleges they count sales to themselves! That's right, they count the vehicles they purchase for corporate use, including for things like advertising!

We also know that automobile industry rags like Cox Automotive are beholden to the legacy companies they report on, they are all snug together, like bugs in a rug. And Tesla is an outsider that gets no favors.

Agreed!! Tesla give outs honest numbers and sometimes sand bags.

I bet the numbers are actually 50k CT’s to like 10k actual sold Lightnings….

The CT is just better than any F-150

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