Reconsidering My CT order, YouTube Reviewers stating it's another Edsel, worst new car flop ever

[RayzorBEV]

I just want to know, like what the hell is this on the driveway!?

You better get someone to clean that up ASAP because it makes the place seem very unkempt...almost like an abandoned property, and you might get squaters...or at a minimum, neighbors complaining to your HOA...


???

The blue ones are my pet's foot prints. The rest from sand/dust storms. Our entire city is covered in layers of sand and dust?.
Today, it's gusting up to 60mph of these brown crap. We're getting a lot of them lately. Climate change?‍

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[pricedm]

Here's a few "flop" trucks and their sales numbers.. In no particular order:

RIvian R1T

Nissan Titan

Hyundai Santa Cruz

Honda Ridgeline

Hummer EV

 

[RayzorBEV]

Here's a few "flop" trucks and their sales numbers.. In no particular order:

RIvian R1T

Nissan Titan

Hyundai Santa Cruz

Honda Ridgeline

Hummer EV

And the Tesla Cybertruck sold approximately 38,965 Cybertrucks in the United States in 2024, according to Cox Automotive and Kelley Blue Book. That paid actor from YouTube must be so proud of his own profession ?

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I don't understand why my neighbors and friends keep calling me a Tesla fanboy. What does it even mean to be Tesla fanboy? Why not just call me a Tesla Superfan instead!?!

The term is fanboi, not fanboy

 

[PungoteagueDave]

Here's a few "flop" trucks and their sales numbers.. In no particular order:

RIvian R1T

Nissan Titan

Hyundai Santa Cruz

Honda Ridgeline

Hummer EV

Not one of those was intended to be a mainstream competitive truck. All of them are meeting sales targets except the Rivian. None of them came out of a factory designed to initially produce 250k trucks and eventually have capacity for 500k. Not one of them except the Rivian, which is a bigger joke and money loser than the CT (losing $30-$50k on every sale at gross margin, much more corporately) is a production or sales volume failure. Every one of them met their design objectives.

The Tesla CT WAS designed to take material pickup truck market share - yet it neither met its design objectives nor is it selling even 10% of production capacity. There is no comparison with those low-production trucks.

I love my CT, purchased just last month, but as a product it is unquestionably a corporate decision-making and marketing failure. You can say wait-and-see all you want but the trend line for CT sales has continued to drop every single month, including after the price came down nearly $50k after tax credits, and after sorting most of the initial production and design faults. Tesla has thrown free charging and cheap lease and financing deals on the table with no result. There are currently over 5,000 CTs in inventory with no takers and no prospects for clearing the rapidly aging ‘24 production. We can stick our fingers in our ears and cover our eyes, but reality is reality.

 

[pricedm]

^^^^

I think we are seeing there is a limited market for $80k+ vehicles. Even more so when considering the storm clouds over the US economy.

Cybertruck prices:
11/2019 to today: +25% inflation
11/2019 Cybertruck AWD price: $50,000
2019 inflation adjusted price: $62,500
4/2025 Cybertruck AWD price: $80,000

IMHO a low/mid $60k vehicle is possible for significantly more buyers than a $80k vehicle. That said, remember the Model Y with FSD was low $70k circa 2021. Versus last month the launch edition Model Y was $60k.

 

[conando]

I am seeing many Youtube posts making the case for the Cybertruck being a total failure and even surpassing the Edsel as the worst new car failure ever.
I have a Foundation CT on order, awaiting recall repairs for the cantrail issue so I haven't received my CT yet.
I am growing concerned that maybe this purchase is a mistake. The FUD is working.
Also, I am thinking if I hold out a little longer, until the 1st quater earnings call, maybe there will be some serious additional incentives on the CT if Tesla really does need to start moving these trucks due to super low sales and all the issues with panels falling off, etc.
I would sure appreciate the community's feedback on this.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I was at the Silver Spring Service Center today to pick up a replacement bed divider for my CT and to drop our ‘26 MY off for driver’s window replacement (a whole other story). I have been to six service centers and showrooms in the past month. All look like this, Cybertrucks EVERYWHERE.

This is going to take some time folks. There’s some of every CT model that Tesla makes in those lineups. I wonder how focused the TSLA board is on this issue.

There’s a real conundrum. They could easily blow out the ‘24s with dramatic price reductions (say $60-65k) but would likely have negative gross sales margins on those trucks. It would essentially be capitulation and acknowledging that the CT take rate is never going to hit anywhere near targets. It would also be the first time ever that Tesla sells any vehicle at a loss against build cost.

It’s a serious problem because even a de-contented CT is expensive to make due to its base format and construction methods/materials. I don’t believe it is possible for Tesla to make any version of the CT and sell it profitably for $60k, much less at their 25-30% historical margins. They might do it anyway to try and gain market share and wider acceptance of the format, but that’s truly outside their historical box.

 

[PungoteagueDave]

I was at the Silver Spring Service Center today to pick up a replacement bed divider for my CT and to drop our ‘26 MY off for driver’s window replacement (a whole other story). I have been to six service centers and showrooms in the past month. All look like this, Cybertrucks EVERYWHERE.

This is going to take some time folks. There’s some of every CT model that Tesla makes in those lineups. I wonder how focused the TSLA board is on this issue.

There’s a real conundrum. They could easily blow out the ‘24s with dramatic price reductions (say $60-65k) but would likely have negative gross sales margins on those trucks. It would essentially be capitulation and acknowledging that the CT take rate is never going to hit anywhere near targets. It would also be the first time ever that Tesla sells any vehicle at a loss against build cost.

It’s a serious problem because even a de-contented CT is expensive to make due to its base format and construction methods/materials. I don’t believe it is possible for Tesla to make any version of the CT and sell it profitably for $60k, much less at their 25-30% historical margins. They might do it anyway to try and gain market share and wider acceptance of the format, but that’s truly outside their historical box.

Somewhat surprising to me was that fact that Silver Spring also has new, non-Launch edition Model Y junipers in inventory for immediate sale. I forgot to take pics but noticed every color except white.

 

[YDR37]

Here's a few "flop" trucks and their sales numbers..

I like the use of data, but would add a couple other points for context.

(1) The Nissan Titan has officially been discontinued due to low sales (although you may still be able to buy one from dealer inventory). So it's not a "flop" in quotation marks -- it's a known commercial failure.

(2) All of the other listed pickups share a platform with more successful SUVs. The Hummer is available in either pickup or SUV configurations. The R1T shares a platform with the R1S. The Ridgeline shares Honda's Global Light Truck Platform with the Passport and Pilot. The Santa Cruz shares the Hyundai-Kia N platform with many other Hyundai and Kia models. Another example would be the Jeep Gladiator, which uses the same platform as the Wrangler.

All of these other pickups can be sold profitably, even at relatively low volumes, because they share development and production costs with their SUV "relatives". For example, Hyundai didn't have to design and produce the Santa Cruz from scratch. They were already manufacturing the Tucson SUV in large volumes, and it was not difficult to make a modified version with an open bed that could be marketed as the "Santa Cruz pickup".

The Cybertruck, on the other hand, really was designed from scratch (at considerable expense), and it doesn't have any SUV "relatives" to share costs. So it's probably harder to produce the CT profitably at low volumes. Tesla did announce that the CT was being produced profitably back in 3Q 2024, but that was when all CTs were Foundation Series, starting at $100,000 or $120,000. The profit on a 2025 CT priced at $79,990 (to qualify for the tax credit) is probably lower.

 

[Arctic_White]

Why do people not take into account Tesla's early years and how close they were to not making it.

Two main factors:
1) Back then, Tesla had to create the market on its own. Battery costs were 3x what they are today.
2) Even with those headwinds, Tesla did not lose as much as Rivian is losing today. Despite having more $ in secured funding, Rivian isn't as cost-competitive as Tesla. In other words, Rivian isn't as hardcore at cutting costs.

Hate to say it, but Rivian's days are numbered.

 

[scottf200]

Rivian isn't as cost-competitive as Tesla. In other words, Rivian isn't as hardcore at cutting costs.

Your comments don't jive with reality. Apparently have have not followed closely on what they did with the R1x Gen 2 or all the things that are coming out with R2x and cost savings they are/have done.

 

[Arctic_White]

Your comments don't jive with reality. Apparently have have not followed closely on what they did with the R1x Gen 2 or all the things that are coming out with R2x and cost savings they are/have done.

You must either be a Rivian shareholder or a Rivian owner, as you are the one not seeing the reality. I own neither the stock nor the car so I'm looking at it objectively.

The fact is, Rivian's cash burn is significant and I don't see a way out for them. Just look at their Free Cash Flow and how much cash burn they have done since inception. If we compare Tesla to Rivian for the same time frame, Rivian's cash burn is 3x that of Tesla at its worst point.

Another complicating factor is that now there are a lot more EV options that Rivian must compete for, not to mention Tesla also exists.

This is a huge, massive uphill battle and I hope they survive (but I doubt they will).

 

[scottf200]

The fact is, Rivian's cash burn is significant and I don't see a way out for them.

A very long time follower.
So you have not seen all the stuff they did for Gen 2 or the R2x in terms of savings and engineering. Got it.
Lot of positives including a popular EDV (Amazon and other companies now), very strong customer base, their OTAs are at or better handled than Tesla (huge) do to better vertical integration than most, Amazon backing, VW investments (meet gross margins recently for this) and arch usage, strong IL manufacturing and expanding and new supply chain setup there. R2x in IL. A variety of things happening. RJ has made a ton of great moves and gets great response in his actions and interviews.

 

[pricedm]

...their OTAs are at or better handled than Tesla...

By "OTA" do you mean Over The Air updates?
I remember when Rivian rolled out such and update and the vehicles which installed the update were "bricked" for several days. Total clusterF* bomb!

@Arctic_White I agree with:
"1) Back then, Tesla had to create the market on its own. Battery costs were 3x what they are today.
2) Even with those headwinds, Tesla did not lose as much as Rivian is losing today. "

but...I disagree with the perspective that Rivian isn't good at cutting costs. They reported $30k cost savings per vehicle in 2025Q1 (not sure comparison period) but yes they re still losing almost $0.5 billion/quarter.

The one unique product Rivian has is the R1S: off-road capable EV SUV. But yeah, at $90k, not in most drivers' budget. Hope they survive to get the R2 launched. Tesla should make the "CyberSUV" to compete!

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