Charging rate appears to be below 1C

[CyberGus]

In summary the 4680 ain't that bad. Some people did the test wrong and published data. Then wildfire starts. It is middle of the road. Again. Will go with Tesla long term on battery health. I can deal with a few more minutes to pee. Just waiting for a leap in tech. In meantime cleaner air makes me feel good.

Right. I knew what I was getting into when I bought a Tesla, but I suppose it's true that an average first-time owner might not. I wouldn't hate it if Supoercharging was faster, but the road-trip charge times do not bother me.

It would be great to have charge speeds like BYD, whose "Flash Charge" packs can fill in about 10 minutes! Unfortunately, to get that tech you must:

• Settle for LFP (lower energy density)
• Use a megacharger (1000V and 1000kW+), and
• Live in China (lol)

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[eswimm]

In fairness it looks like the vast majority of your charging is between 30-65%
Which is GREAT for battery life, quick charges, decent curve etc.

But for the guys pulling a trailer when 90% charge is needed to make it to the next supercharger (in the summer) the tail end of the charge curve is pretty brutal.

My longest charges have been 95.0kWh (12-90%) in 53m, 94.4kWh (9-87%) in 42m and 91.1kWh (15-90%) in 44m. Widest range on the battery I'd have to combine 2 charges, 55.3kWh (5-51%) 18m and 49.8kWh (49-90%) 29m for a combined 105.2kWh (5-90%) in 47 minutes. I'll concede that if you absolutely have to go to 100%, then it's going to push you past the hour mark.

 

[cybercricket]

In summary the 4680 ain't that bad. Some people did the test wrong and published data. Then wildfire starts. It is middle of the road. Again. Will go with Tesla long term on battery health. I can deal with a few more minutes to pee. Just waiting for a leap in tech. In meantime cleaner air makes me feel good.

"Few minutes" are actually "few hours" on trips over a certain mileage and/or with trailer loads, which is why ridiculing it is disingenuous.

 

[devdrone6]

"Few minutes" are actually "few hours" on trips over a certain mileage and/or with trailer loads, which is why ridiculing it is disingenuous.

@Outdoors was just stating facts, I see no ridiculing statements. I think you are just arguing the same thing over and over without understanding (or acknowledging ) the reasoning behind the charging curve at this point.

 

[HaulingAss]

The oldest playbook in Tesla land is "Oh, yeah, but what if you are towing a big trailer?

I see a lot of pickups on the road where I live and travel, mostly gas and a few electric, very few of them have a trailer behind them and most of the ones that do don't look like they are on a long multi-day trip.

Think about that before saying, "Yeah, but what about trailers". I purposefully do not tow a trailer when travelling long distance and that was also true when all I had were ICE trucks. If you are one of those RV'ers, I recommend getting a 3/4-ton (minimum) gas or diesel truck. Not because an electric truck can't do it, but a trailer tends to more than double the time spent charging. This is true even if you have a truck like the Silverado that slightly edges out the Cybertruck in charging speed, assuming you have appropriate chargers available(and that is a big assumption). In most rural areas the selection of DCFC is not as good and the Cybertruck will often beat the Silverado in terms of miles added during a typical charging stop. But very few 1/2 ton pickups are actually used for long-distance towing.

In other words, this charging speed wailing means very little in the real world. If I had a dollar for every time I saw someone write, "but what if you are towing a big trailer long-distances" I would be wealthier than I already am.

 

[MCraft99]

As someone that has used Tesla superchargers 100% of the time(free) for 30K miles, I have noticed that the 500/325KW rate is only during the initial 0-10 percent. At 60% the charging slope will be around 120KW and go to 100KW around 65%. After that, it goes to 96KW down to 86KW till 80%. It will actualy increase back up to 90+KW at 82% till 86%.

250KW SCers which are what I usually am at, take about 35-40 minutes to charge to 80% from 10%. The chargers will also derate and switch to 36KW around 5% of the time and I usually switch stalls to get a different inverter rack that isn't overheating or whatever the cause is. You have to watch it though, because the estimated time will not update even after derating to 36KW.

I really enjoy the FSD(minus the v13+ random hard breaking for birds and squirrels or when blinded by oncoming headlights in 2 lane roads) but the almost daily charging times for my work commute can offset the time saved with FSD. It gives me time to work on other things though while I'm charging.

Out of Spec charging curves appear to match my experiences with the truck. Apparently the last couple of years' S & X have a faster charging curve to 80% but I've never used a loaner long enough to notice it. Don't pay attention to the advertised 325KW range. I hardly ever charge to 100% unless I'm taking a nap during 1K mile roadtrips. You should view the truck from the mindset of having a more realistic range of 200 miles when charging to 80% regularly. It's not good to leave the battery above 80% in the heat so I usually charge to 86% to arrive at home with 80% after work. Sentry and cabin heat protection at 90F will drain about 15% a day. The interior 120V outlets disable once at 10% so I try to never go below 10% either. This makes the true range and amount of stops for charging extremely different than my expectations from the website's advertised charging times.

 

[AWDMK4]

Maybe missing this and all the other charge hype.
500kw (adding almost 1300 miles/hour of charging)

That is from over a year and a half ago by the way.

I don't see a lie there, do you? Others (see screenshot from CT Silicon Valley) have hit 500kw, though as to be expected, it only lasts for a few seconds. Anyone who's ever owned a Tesla would immediately know that initial plug-in rate does not sustain for any meaningful period of time.

Did you actually believe that was the charging capabilities of the CT before you bought one? As I tell my kids.... trust but verify.

 

[cybercricket]

The oldest playbook in Tesla land is "Oh, yeah, but what if you are towing a big trailer?

I see a lot of pickups on the road where I live and travel, mostly gas and a few electric, very few of them have a trailer behind them and most of the ones that do don't look like they are on a long multi-day trip.

Think about that before saying, "Yeah, but what about trailers". I purposefully do not tow a trailer when travelling long distance and that was also true when all I had were ICE trucks. If you are one of those RV'ers, I recommend getting a 3/4-ton (minimum) gas or diesel truck. Not because an electric truck can't do it, but a trailer tends to more than double the time spent charging. This is true even if you have a truck like the Silverado that slightly edges out the Cybertruck in charging speed, assuming you have appropriate chargers available(and that is a big assumption). In most rural areas the selection of DCFC is not as good and the Cybertruck will often beat the Silverado in terms of miles added during a typical charging stop. But very few 1/2 ton pickups are actually used for long-distance towing.

In other words, this charging speed wailing means very little in the real world. If I had a dollar for every time I saw someone write, "but what if you are towing a big trailer long-distances" I would be wealthier than I already am.

The oldest playbook indeed. "I don't use a trailer, so nobody else uses a trailer and any complaints are just manufactured. And Tesla is outright stupid to invest into building out pull-through stations for EVs with trailers, because nobody in reality uses a trailer with an EV, and if they are, they should be buying an ICE truck instead."

 

[cybercricket]

I don't see a lie there, do you? Others (see screenshot from CT Silicon Valley) have hit 500kw, though as to be expected, it only lasts for a few seconds. Anyone who's ever owned a Tesla would immediately know that initial plug-in rate does not sustain for any meaningful period of time.

Did you actually believe that was the charging capabilities of the CT before you bought one? As I tell my kids.... trust but verify.

Best lies aren't technically lies - they're omissions and misrepresentations. The question to be asked - would a reasonable person be mislead by that image into thinking that vehicle charges ultrafast, akin to fueling an ICE vehicle ?

 

[pricedm]

If ya think waiting on the Cybertruck to charge takes a long time, ask your buddies driving an EV with 160 - 200+ kWh battery what their experience is like. Starting from home/overnight charge: nice range. Refill in-route, takes mor time.

 

[cybercricket]

If ya think waiting on the Cybertruck to charge takes a long time, ask your buddies driving an EV with 160 - 200+ kWh battery what their experience is like. Starting from home/overnight charge: nice range. Refill in-route, takes mor time.

One is supply constrained, the other is absorption constrained. Two different contexts.

 

[AWDMK4]

Best lies aren't technically lies - they're omissions and misrepresentations. The question to be asked - would a reasonable person be mislead by that image into thinking that vehicle charges ultrafast, akin to fueling an ICE vehicle ?

Our definitions of a "resonable person" are probably different so I'll refrain from further discussions on the topic.

 

[Outdoors]

The oldest playbook in Tesla land is "Oh, yeah, but what if you are towing a big trailer?

Yes noticed that addendum to the conversation. Was laughing. It used to be. What if I run out of range during the day? Let's keep the goal posts right where they are.

I think the point is that the truck over the 0-100% never averages out to 1C. So???

I don't think this is ridiculing the situation @cybercricket . Yet it is becoming a bit ridiculous.

I know Tesla's mission statement has wavered from time to time. But I don't think it ever said anywhere in the mission statement that are charging sessions should always be over 1C throughout 100% of the charging range.

Tesla's trying to in my mind promote sustainable transportation models that are scalable and repeatable. Other manufacturers are struggling to keep up with the mass numbers that Tesla creates each year and sells. So I think they might be doing some of the things early on that any manufacturer would be doing, pushing the envelope..

I too am bowing out because I don't really understand what we're trying to accomplish other than the fact that Teslas don't charge at 1C throughout the charging session from 0 to 100.

 

[UberNoob]

 

[MCraft99]

Hopefully they upgrade the size of the packs to 180-200KW with a refresh of the completely dry chemistry they've developed. Maybe the expansion pack will come back? Who knows how much payload this consumed and whether they weighed the risks of customers damaging the packs in the bed into their reason for cancellation. There's still an extra terminal at the main battery pack on all cybertrucks built. No clue if 4680 will continue to be the optimal size but the batteries are not currently thermally limited like some have claimed. You can view the temperatures in service mode while en route and charging. They actually need to heat up to charge quickly, not cool down. Tesla intentionally limits the charging curve to optimize for longevity and safety.

The other auto brands are the only battery packs that catch fire while parked or in transit. GM's gel pack design has severe degradation after only 1 year but does charge faster, if you're OK with leasing a new one every year or so. There's been posts by people that operate both GM, Ford and Tesla EV trucks in fleets and have confirmed the major issues with range degradation and trucks stuck in the shop for extended servicing due to the lack of service tech knowledge and part availability from the traditional auto brands. This is to be expected as the majority of the training would be focused on 99% of what comes into the shop. The limited techs have to be certified to work on high voltage and understand the hazards before being able to work on them.

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