SPECIAL EDITION QUAD-MOTOR Cybertruck rumor

[CappyJax]

Is that your private spreadsheet or is that available on a public web site?
If public what is link?

It is my own.

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[Crissa]

The Semi doesn't use 2kWh/mi.

-Crissa

 

[CappyJax]

The Semi doesn't use 2kWh/mi.

-Crissa

The Tesla semi is also far more aerodynamic than anything pulling a fifth wheel.

 

[firsttruck]

I am not sure I understand the variables values you are using.

Can you tell me what you used for
1. total weight & what items are included in that number
2. Coefficient of drag for Cybertruck
3. Coefficient of drag for trailer
4. area of front of Cybertruck
5. area of front of trailer
6. speed

 

[CappyJax]

I am not sure I understand the variables values you are using.

Can you tell me what you used for
1. total weight & what items are included in that number
2. Coefficient of drag for Cybertruck
3. Coefficient of drag for trailer
4. area of front of Cybertruck
5. area of front of trailer
6. speed

1. 5,000 pounds for Cybertruck, 14,000 pounds for 5th wheel.
2. & 3. 0.55 Which is actually a rather good number for a truck and 5th wheel. The CD of either is irrelevant and you need to use the CD of both together.
4. & 5. 9.66 sq/m
6. 60 MPH

 

[Youaregoldone]

A contradiction in terms.

The Sound of Silence.

 

[firsttruck]

1. 5,000 pounds for Cybertruck, 14,000 pounds for 5th wheel.
2. & 3. 0.55 Which is actually a rather good number for a truck and 5th wheel. The CD of either is irrelevant and you need to use the CD of both together.
4. & 5. 9.66 sq/m
6. 60 MPH

What answers do you get for

1. total weight: 11,000 lbs ( 4,990 kg )
--- (tow vehicle, 2 people (400lbs), bags (400lbs), misc stuff (120 lbs), trailer ( 6,000lbs)

2. Coefficient of drag for tow vehicle: 0.25
3. Coefficient of drag for trailer: 0.55
4. area of front of tow vehicle: 25 square ft ( 2.31 sq meters )
5. area of front of trailer: 76.5 sq ft ( 7.124 sq meters = 2.60m x 2.74m)
6. speed: 56 mph ( 90 k/h )

 

[FullyGrounded]

Cybertruck tow rating might increase too.

The middle and top part of Cybertruck towing range (7,500 - 14,000 lbs) is not very useful when most RV trailers in that range use 5th-wheel hitches Also many farmers/ranchers & other commercial use gooseneck hitches. Cybertruck needs a way to support 5th-wheel/gooseneck hitches.

They use these hitch because the trailers sway less and excess sway is a cause of a lot of accidents by vehicles towing trailers.

5th-wheel/gooseneck hitches put the transferred trailer weight load between the tow vehicles wheels (before rear wheels) which puts much less stress on the tow vehicle than what rear ball hitch does.

When towing you have to make very wide turns. With 5th-wheel/gooseneck hitches turning circle is reduced.

Most U.S. states have shorter length limit for total vehicle + trailer length.
5th-wheel/gooseneck hitches setups can be 2-3 foot shorter which means you could have 2-3 feet more of usable space.

5th-wheel/gooseneck hitches setups have smaller gap between tow vehicle high point & front of trailer which should be more aerodynamic & reduce some of the range degradation when towing.

I could see a dually as a real necessary option, for crazy heavy loads you describe.

 

[CappyJax]

What answers do you get for

1. total weight: 11,000 lbs ( 4,990 kg )
--- (tow vehicle, 2 people (400lbs), bags (400lbs), misc stuff (120 lbs), trailer ( 6,000lbs)

2. Coefficient of drag for tow vehicle: 0.25
3. Coefficient of drag for trailer: 0.55
4. area of front of tow vehicle: 25 square ft ( 2.31 sq meters )
5. area of front of trailer: 76.5 sq ft ( 7.124 sq meters = 2.60m x 2.74m)
6. speed: 56 mph ( 90 k/h )

I get that you are smoking some real good shit if you think the Cybertruck is going to have a CD of .25. Pass it over man!

 

[firsttruck]

What answers do you get for

1. total weight: 11,000 lbs ( 4,990 kg )
--- (tow vehicle, 2 people (400lbs), bags (400lbs), misc stuff (120 lbs), trailer ( 6,000lbs)

2. Coefficient of drag for tow vehicle: 0.25
3. Coefficient of drag for trailer: 0.55
4. area of front of tow vehicle: 25 square ft ( 2.31 sq meters )
5. area of front of trailer: 76.5 sq ft ( 7.124 sq meters = 2.60m x 2.74m)
6. speed: 56 mph ( 90 k/h )

I get that you are smoking some real good shit if you think the Cybertruck is going to have a CD of .25. Pass it over man!

I did not say the tow vehicle was a Cybertruck.

Is your spreadsheet able to handle is calculation?

 

[CappyJax]

I did not say the tow vehicle was a Cybertruck.

Is your spreadsheet able to handle is calculation?

I am not your technical support.

 

[firsttruck]

Maybe a 5,000 pound travel trailer, yes. But just doing the math on a fifth wheel travel trailer weighing 14,000 pounds, and I get an energy requirement of around 2,000Wh/mi. Are you suggesting the CT will come with a 560kWh battery?

What answers do you get for


1. total weight: 11,000 lbs ( 4,990 kg )

--- (tow vehicle, 2 people (400lbs), bags (400lbs), misc stuff (120 lbs), trailer ( 6,000lbs)


2. Coefficient of drag for tow vehicle: 0.25

3. Coefficient of drag for trailer: 0.55

4. area of front of tow vehicle: 25 square ft ( 2.31 sq meters )

5. area of front of trailer: 76.5 sq ft ( 7.124 sq meters = 2.60m x 2.74m)

6. speed: 56 mph ( 90 k/h )

I am not your technical support.

There are several real world examples of EVs towing that resulted in about 50% reduction in range. Real world towing examples from ICE trucks pulling 10K-14K lbs trailers are similar (40% reduction). So based on this info & the difference in Cybertruck I have posited that Cybertruck towing might be around a 50% reduction even at 14,000 lbs.

Your prediction of 2,000Wh/mi. that you claim to have made scientifically using your spreadsheet is way out of range.

I don't think anyone should rely on that claim without more validation.
If you do not want to backup it up with anything that is fine too.

Carl Sagan: Extraordinary Claims Require Extraordinary Evidence

 

[alan auerbach]

Seems like grist for the rumor mill.

Development would be better directed toward fewer hi-output motors that are more efficient. Less draw, less drain and ludicrous performance with simplification of the platform. There could be savings depending on the software/ battery life tradeoff.

There really is less and less need for 4x4. It is a vestige of ICE to think in terms of a motor at every wheel. Electrons can do that work, be managed by software and innovation can overcome the ludicrous cost-curve.

IRL there are more people below the 4 motor cost curve than are above it who want to own a Tesla. Einstein thought it logically perfect to simplify a system until no longer possible to remove a single item. SO Tesla’s going ludicrously bonkers on 4 motors is simply selling to a few wealthy elite who have the bones to throw at ludicrous.

It is no longer true that you need 4 wheels driving to go anywhere. Ninety percent of roads are maintained, paved and accessible by 2 wheel drive. Cars today can get to 75% of places as a result. A few crazed drivers further!

There is no argument for 4x4 safety with the increased weight adding motors at each wheel. That has devastating consequences for car-on-car collisions.

Few work trucks in the CT 8200# class would “need” 4x4. Those who do have greater needs and are better off buying ICE diesel for work.

I have had 4x4 since 1946 Dodge Power wagon. Today, I use 4x4 as luxury to park sidehill and use 4x4 to drive out of an impossible position for 2 wheel car. It is a luxury when I have unmarked two-track that I needn‘t walk first. Currently, in a third world country I haven’t needed 4x4 yet but its a luxury if I do.

I’m one CT buyer. I’d be happy with two motors that spec up to the tri-motor. Range is everything. Pulling an F-150, pulling 14000# trailer is not a good match to BEV. The longer I have had time to wait, the single motor might be the better BEV

"There really is less and less need for 4x4."

Not where I live.

 

[Crissa]

"There really is less and less need for 4x4."

Not where I live.

You mis-read the implication: Drive-by wire means that individual braking and clutching of the drive wheels can be feathered electronically rather than just overpowering the slip like one would traditionally do with an ICE.

Until you're in a situation where you can't shift the weight of the vehicle onto the drive axle - which would be a very slippery inconsistent surface like snow pack or mud - you really don't need on both axles.

And then, when you need power on the greatest surface, you just need two drive axles. The differentials and brakes can be electronically feathered to move drive power to the wheel that grips.

The only thing that 4-motor really gets you is tank turn. And you could probably do that with a special clutch in the differential. It's possible that 4-motor (like the hubs) could simplify the overall mechanical... But that day isn't today.

-Crissa

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