SPECIAL EDITION QUAD-MOTOR Cybertruck rumor

firsttruck

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You can be at 5,000 feet and still be pretty flat. But there are ALWAYS changes in grade. They may be imperceptible at times, but they are there. You can drive from Chicago to Denver and gain over 4,500 feet, and it is flat as hell.

You single data points don't provide any such information, and I was just showing you how there could easily be a large difference in energy usage with a small variable.
Sure, in the real world it is hard to sense slight altitude changes.
The real world example given here were for round trip over the same roads so any change would mostly be canceled out.

But you make assumptions when you did the Cybertruck towing 14,000 lbs will be 2,000 wh/mi
You did not inform the forum readers of all these caveats then.

What are all the assumptions you used?

I made no "assertion". I provided actual fucking math as to the energy required to move a 14,000 fifth wheel trailer of common size with a tow vehicle at sea level doing 55MPH with tires typical of those on pickup trucks.

Well you use less energy on some trips? Of course! Will you use more energy on some trips? Of course! Try educating yourself instead of arguing with science dude. Are you one of those people who doesn't wear a mask?
More ad hominem attacks.

I could make similar attacks but I will let facts & science do the work.

You made all these assumptions when you used this supposedly fancy spreadsheet to do an estimate for the Cybertruck but now you say it is too difficult to make reasonable assumptions for real world examples that all forum readers have access too.

I guess forum readers should infer that the assumptions you used for the Cybertruck were not reasonable.

Well you use less energy on some trips? Of course! Will you use more energy on some trips? Of course! Try educating yourself instead of arguing with science dude. Are you one of those people who doesn't wear a mask?
I am not disputing there will be some variances but you are the one that now throws out that there are all types of mitigating factors when your original 2,000 wh/mi answer did not mention any of them.

Your Cybertruck towing 14,000 2,000 wh/mi estimate is worthless since your spreadsheet does not give results close to typical real world trips without vetted & validated spreadsheet.

assumptions to use with Cybertruck towing 14,000lbs and other real world examples
steady speed 55 mph
altitude: sea level
level U.S. highway with normal speeds of 55-80mph (no hills, no mountains)
no stop & go traffic
no wind
moderate temp 70F

Are they other types of materially significant assumptions you made with Cybertruck towing 14,000 lbs 2,000 wh/ni estimate but did not tell us.

Here are some real world examples that would tell us about reliability of the spreadsheet

real world example 2
Tesla Model X LR+, 100 kwh, 5,421 lb (2,459 kg), 350 miles range
2018 Airsteam Bambi 22', 4,500lbs, 55mph, 489 wh/mi

real world example example 3
1. total weight: 11,000 lbs ( 4,990 kg )
--- (tow vehicle, 2 people (400lbs), bags (400lbs), misc stuff (120 lbs), trailer ( 6,000lbs)
2. Coefficient of drag for tow vehicle: 0.25
3. Coefficient of drag for trailer: 0.55
4. area of front of tow vehicle: 25 square ft ( 2.31 sq meters )
5. area of front of trailer: 76.5 sq ft ( 7.124 sq meters = 2.60m x 2.74m)
6. speed: 56 mph ( 90 k/h )

real world example 4
2017 Ford F-350 Gross weight 9900 lbs 15-17 mpg, 8-10 mpg towing ( 50% loss when towing)
2019 Grand Design Reflection 312BHTS 37ft GVWR 11,295 trailer
Height 11' 8" ( 3,556 mm )
Width 8' ( 2,438 mm )

I suspect you will not give us answers to these real world examples because the answer would show your spreadsheet does not work.

A spreadsheet that does not provide entire source so it can be vetted and is not validated against real work examples is worthless.





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Tinker71

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The actual physics of energy use per mile does not care if vehicles are BEV (kwh) or ICE (mpg). If same total weight (tow vehicle + trailer), same cD, same frontal area you get same answer from formulas.
If ICE + trailer total weight is 14,000lbs, cD .55, frontal area X has 40% mpg loss.
then BEV + trailer total weight is 14,000lbs, cD .55, frontal area X will have same 40% kwh loss.

Below are examples of how much worse energy use is (40-50%) when towing large trailers.
Even shows how towing 5th wheel trailer is more energy effecient than similar ball hitch travel trailer.

------------

Ford F-150, curb weight 4,995lbs, non-towing range 15-18 mpg

Ford F150 that tows 10,000 lbs., Eco-Boost - iRV2 Forums
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f45/ford-f150-that-tows-10-000-lbs-eco-boost-433691.html
03-08-2019, 10:04 AM #11
tscarps, Senior Member, Location: Omaha, NE
Mallard travel trailer with a dry weight of roughly 8,000 lbs. loaded up closer to 9,000.
total 14,000 lbs
towing the Mallard travel trailer got about 8 mpg.

Open Roads Forum - Travel trailer "vs" fith wheel -- MPG to tow
2016
https://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/29131182/print/true.cfm
Posted By: Padlin on 12/18/16 05:10am
both trailers were 10.5 ft high
5th wheel trailer was 1 ft longer, 2" wider and 900lbs heavier.
10 mpg ball hitch Travel Trailer, 20 ft, 3,500 lbs, 10.5 ft high
13 mpg 5th wheel trailer, 21 ft, 4,400 lbs, 10.5 ft high, 2 inches wider
17 mpg without trailer
17 mpg is more than 40% better than 10mpg

.....
Posted By: StirCrazy on 12/20/16 12:51am
my experience was similar to a couple.
towing old travel trailer (29 foot, 7500 lbs) with my 99 7.3I got about 11.4 mpg.
same truck a month later with a new 38-foot, 5th wheel 11,500 lbs trailer I got 15.7 mpg. exact same trip route. As mentioned the more aerodynamic front end of the 5th and being closer to the truck cab makes only one drag zone instead of two with the typical ball hitch travel trailer.


------------

From your spreadsheet what answer do you get for

1. total weight: 11,000 lbs ( 4,990 kg )

--- (tow vehicle, 2 people (400lbs), bags (400lbs), misc stuff (120 lbs), trailer ( 6,000lbs)


2. Coefficient of drag for tow vehicle: 0.25

3. Coefficient of drag for trailer: 0.55

4. area of front of tow vehicle: 25 square ft ( 2.31 sq meters )

5. area of front of trailer: 76.5 sq ft ( 7.124 sq meters = 2.60m x 2.74m)

6. speed: 56 mph ( 90 k/h )
This is good anecdotal data and you are correct about the energy requirement. I lean towards the 50% loss in range. Because the CT is extremely aerodynamic it will be more sensitive to increased drag than an F150 when pulling a blocky trailer.
 

CappyJax

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Sure, in the real world it is hard to sense slight altitude changes.
The real world example given here were for round trip over the same roads so any change would mostly be canceled out.

But you make assumptions when you did the Cybertruck towing 14,000 lbs will be 2,000 wh/mi
You did not inform the forum readers of all these caveats then.

What are all the assumptions you used?



More ad hominem attacks.

I could make similar attacks but I will let facts & science do the work.

You made all these assumptions when you used this supposedly fancy spreadsheet to do an estimate for the Cybertruck but now you say it is too difficult to make reasonable assumptions for real world examples that all forum readers have access too.

I guess forum readers should infer that the assumptions you used for the Cybertruck were not reasonable.



I am not disputing there will be some variances but you are the one that now throws out that there are all types of mitigating factors when your original 2,000 wh/mi answer did not mention any of them.

Your Cybertruck towing 14,000 2,000 wh/mi estimate is worthless since your spreadsheet does not give results close to typical real world trips without vetted & validated spreadsheet.

assumptions to use with Cybertruck towing 14,000lbs and other real world examples
steady speed 55 mph
altitude: sea level
level U.S. highway with normal speeds of 55-80mph (no hills, no mountains)
no stop & go traffic
no wind
moderate temp 70F

Are they other types of materially significant assumptions you made with Cybertruck towing 14,000 lbs 2,000 wh/ni estimate but did not tell us.

Here are some real world examples that would tell us about reliability of the spreadsheet

real world example 2
Tesla Model X LR+, 100 kwh, 5,421 lb (2,459 kg), 350 miles range
2018 Airsteam Bambi 22', 4,500lbs, 55mph, 489 wh/mi

real world example example 3
1. total weight: 11,000 lbs ( 4,990 kg )
--- (tow vehicle, 2 people (400lbs), bags (400lbs), misc stuff (120 lbs), trailer ( 6,000lbs)
2. Coefficient of drag for tow vehicle: 0.25
3. Coefficient of drag for trailer: 0.55
4. area of front of tow vehicle: 25 square ft ( 2.31 sq meters )
5. area of front of trailer: 76.5 sq ft ( 7.124 sq meters = 2.60m x 2.74m)
6. speed: 56 mph ( 90 k/h )

real world example 4
2017 Ford F-350 Gross weight 9900 lbs 15-17 mpg, 8-10 mpg towing ( 50% loss when towing)
2019 Grand Design Reflection 312BHTS 37ft GVWR 11,295 trailer
Height 11' 8" ( 3,556 mm )
Width 8' ( 2,438 mm )

I suspect you will not give us answers to these real world examples because the answer would show your spreadsheet does not work.

A spreadsheet that does not provide entire source so it can be vetted and is not validated against real work examples is worthless.
I am done arguing with you. You can educate yourself if you want, or you can just keep playing the fanboi. You can't change physics with wishful thinking.
 

ericpdb2

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There are sound rumors from Tesla workers about a possible Quad-Motor Super Performance Cybertruck model capable of insane maneuvers. Anyone have any thoughts?

IF Quad motor makes the CT faster and increases the range I will gladly pay the incremental cost over the Tri Motor I have reserved. It is excessive. I welcome more excess. I am old and scrimped for decades to have fun in retirement. I WANT a 4 motor CT with rockets. NOW.
 

CappyJax

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Guys..Guys!...Aren't we here to make constructive comments for our upcoming awesome vehicle? If you wanna get into a Cyber-Fight, go to social media! Here are welcomed only CT's brothers & Sisters.
This thread has been dead for over a week. Why are you trying to stir shit up?
 

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