4680 Battery Production Progress

[Tinker71]

CleanTechnical Battery Production Progress

This article basically said that pilot line yields were sufficient to order all the production equipment and that everything was in fact on order. I thought that was a pretty good milestone and my fellow Cybertruckers would be a little more excited.

I would imagine the parts of the line without issues may have been on order already and just the last major change items were held up. Anybody have an idea how long equipment of this size and sophistication would take to build? Who is building it and where? It sounded like Berlin was going to get it first.

Last I heard yields on the 4680 were 70-80%.... I wonder what sufficient is? I am really excited to see the 4680s in the Y to see if the battery day performance is truly realized. Will we readily be able to see the weight drop and range improve?

I think we have touched on it just a little bit, but how adaptable might the cylindrical battery process be to material improvements...ie solid state electrolyte?

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[Jhodgesatmb]

I would be excited if it was more than someone saying "70-80% yield" and no backup from Tesla on it. In fact, I think the only thing I would believe, and then get excited about, would be seeing a 4680-based vehicle on the road, even a test car, or if Elon actually said "here is one" or "the factory will be operational in November" or some such. I try not to get excited over something that doesn't exist, but I do worry ...

 

[Ogre]

From the article:

Tesla says all the high-speed production equipment has been ordered for Germany and Giga Texas based on the designs perfected at the Kato Road prototype.

I just want to point out that they'd already ordered this some time ago. From the earnings call:

Meantime, we have a massive amount of equipment on order and arriving, for the high-volume cell production in Austin and Berlin. But obviously, given what we've learned with the pilot plant, which is in Fremont, which is really quite a big plant by most standards, we will have to modify a bunch of that equipment. So it won't be able to start immediately. But it seems like -- Andrew, correct me if I'm wrong, but we think, most likely, we will hit an annualized rate of 100-gigawatt hours a year, sometime next year.

The big question which I don't think this article addresses is if they've figured out the calendaring issues they were having and have addressed those yet.

 

[fritter63]

The big question which I don't think this article addresses is if they've figured out the calendaring issues they were having and have addressed those yet.

Calendaring issues? (serious)

Like how Elon can be in 3 places at once?

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

That would be good to know, yes. The good news is that they are close and, as you remind us, they have ordered and are assembling equipment at GigaAustin even now. But not soon enough for the initial Model Y production. It is safe to assume that 4680 cell production is no longer going to hold up the CT, and probably not the gigapresses either.

 

[Ogre]

Calendaring issues? (serious)

Like how Elon can be in 3 places at once?

One of the big holdups with the 4680 production was with a phase of production called calendaring.

Calendering, process of smoothing and compressing a material (notably paper) during production by passing a single continuous sheet through a number of pairs of heated rolls. The rolls in combination are called calenders. Calender rolls are constructed of steel with a hardened surface, or steel covered with fibre; in paper production, they typically exert a pressure of 500 pounds per linear inch (89 kilograms per centimetre). Coated papers are calendered to provide a smooth, glossy finish.

https://www.britannica.com/technology/calendering

They create a sheet of material for the electrode by pressing it between a series of metal rollers. In Tesla's process, the process was working at a smaller scale, but when they tried to do the same process on larger scale machines, the rollers would deform which means the sheets are no longer uniform. If this won't work, they are likely going to have to rework some pretty fundamental parts of their battery production

(Illustration is not a Tesla cell but it's similar)

This was the biggest concern they brought up at the last earnings call regarding the 4680 cells and scaling production up. The more time it takes to sort this out, the longer before the 4680 production can start... and that means no Cybertruck.

 

[Ogre]

That would be good to know, yes. The good news is that they are close and, as you remind us, they have ordered and are assembling equipment at GigaAustin even now. But not soon enough for the initial Model Y production. It is safe to assume that 4680 cell production is no longer going to hold up the CT, and probably not the gigapresses either.

I sure hope it is no longer going to hold up the Cybertruck.

I think the gigapress is either coming soon or they snuck it in in the middle of the night. We should see some beta trucks soon.

 

[happy intruder]

One of the big holdups with the 4680 production was with a phase of production called calendaring.



https://www.britannica.com/technology/calendering

They create a sheet of material for the electrode by pressing it between a series of metal rollers. In Tesla's process, the process was working at a smaller scale, but when they tried to do the same process on larger scale machines, the rollers would deform which means the sheets are no longer uniform. If this won't work, they are likely going to have to rework some pretty fundamental parts of their battery production

(Illustration is not a Tesla cell but it's similar)

This was the biggest concern they brought up at the last earnings call regarding the 4680 cells and scaling production up. The more time it takes to sort this out, the longer before the 4680 production can start... and that means no Cybertruck.

would you accept CT with 2170 batteries

 

[Ogre]

would you accept CT with 2170 batteries

It's not a matter of whether I would accept it or not. I don't think a CT with 2170 cells is viable.

The structural battery pack more or less underpins the whole thing and that is based around the 4680 cell. It is also fundamental to keeping the costs down.

Using the 2170 would likely mean a significantly different design, specs, and price.

 

[happy intruder]

It's not a matter of whether I would accept it or not. I don't think a CT with 2170 cells is viable.

The structural battery pack more or less underpins the whole thing and that is based around the 4680 cell. It is also fundamental to keeping the costs down.

Using the 2170 would likely mean a significantly different design, specs, and price.

yea, you're probably correct......I see the giga Texas plant and it is hard to see how battery production will be available to start until well into 2022 thus postponing production again.....I also find it difficult to believe Tesla has a 4680 back up plan past the model y

 

[Crissa]

They've been loading equipment into the battery building for quite some time.

-Crissa

 

[happy intruder]

They've been loading equipment into the battery building for quite some time.

-Crissa

Yea but video lately up close shows walls and nothing setup. Bottom floor still dirt. Lots of open space on joes upload today

 

[Crissa]

Yea but video lately up close shows walls and nothing setup. Bottom floor still dirt. Lots of open space on joes upload today

Yeah, but we can't see very far in and they filled the upper floor with the weird aircon 'evaporator' boxes on the roof. It looks to me like they expect to use the window-side for offices and people-stuff.

-Crissa

 

[happy intruder]

Yeah, but we can't see very far in and they filled the upper floor with the weird aircon 'evaporator' boxes on the roof. It looks to me like they expect to use the window-side for offices and people-stuff.

-Crissa

agree with that....hope those windows stop UV and heat in the summer or those offices will be pretty warm......hahahaha

 

[Ogre]

Yea but video lately up close shows walls and nothing setup. Bottom floor still dirt. Lots of open space on joes upload today

I'm not entirely sure, but they've been moving pretty fast on this build. It's also possible they will start out with production in Fremont and ship the cells from there. They are definitely further along in Fremont.

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