Cleaning - BKF not working -scrub harder?

[Tumbleweed]

Are you woking panel by panel with the BKF or doing all panels and then circling back around? If you’re doing panel by panel, how long are you letting the BKF sit?

I tried doing the entire truck with BKF and then circling back to clean off (Windex at the time, but now I’ve shifted to a rinseless wash/alcohol/water combo). Letting it sit while I went around the entire truck etched everything and it was a complete mess. Freaked myself out. I now go panel by panel and don’t let it sit too long. As soon as I‘ve applied BKF to one panel I clean it off.

My only beef is that I have one panel (rear driver’s side) that looks a little darker than all other panels. I don’t think that has anything to do with the BKF. I think I just got a weird panel. Not sure if Tesla can do anything about that.

I have only tried BFK on about an 8th of the frunk. I freaked after that thinking I ruined it.

I’m impressed you did your whole truck with BKF! Is it shiny? Did you scrub or just let it sit and work, then rinse?

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[Texarado]

I have only tried BFK on about an 8th of the frunk. I freaked after that thinking I ruined it.

I’m impressed you did your whole truck with BKF! Is it shiny? Did you scrub or just let it sit and work, then rinse?

Take a look at my post from very beginning of the month:
https://www.cybertruckownersclub.com/forum/threads/bkf-windex-combo-first-experience.14098/

Spoiler is definitely do the treatment panel by panel. Do not let it sit. Unless of course you’re trying to get out some deep stain. If you do let it sit, know that you’re going to have to do two coats of BKF—the first coat that you let sit and that will create some BKF-etching/stains; the second coat will remove the first coat stains. At least that was my experience. As I mention in the post linked above, I was completely freaked out I had just ruined this new vehicle.

EDIT: I have switched to a rinseless wash/91% alcohol/water mixture instead of Windex. I honestly don’t know how bad Windex is for the metal. Some people really frown at it on here and maybe that’s overblown. I don’t know. But until there’s more long term info about it, I’ve switched to this other mixture that is close to neutral pH. Also, no it doesn’t leave it “mirror shiny” but it does remove some of the patina.

 

[TECH49]

Were you using Windex with or without ammonia? I've noticed when owners write about Windex, they aren't specifying, but Dr Google says don't use cleaners with ammonia on stainless.

 

[Derektsla]

I’m impressed you did your whole truck with BKF! Is it shiny? Did you scrub or just let it sit and work, then rinse?

My method that worked pretty well.
1. Apply BKF quickly onto a single panel. The goal is to cover the entire panel quickly so the chemical reaction can start on the whole panel.
2. After the panel is covered, set timer for 1 minute and gently scrub over the whole panel like you would wax a car. Some pressure, but not pushing hard. If you see a darker stain, you can scrub a little more there.
3. when the 1 minute timer expires, rinse thoroughly with a hose to neutralize the chemical reaction.
4. Repeat as needed. It took me 2 of these cycles for each panel to get all stains off. Final result looked great!

The grit in BKF didn’t seem to affect the stainless at all, even when I scrubbed a bit more in a few places. I can tell because some of the factory polish marks remain the same, nothing I did added any micro scratches.

Important: be prepared for some variation on the panels. My passenger door had a different sheen from the factory that was more noticeable after cleaning it up. It will also appear a lot more like shiny silver, rather than darker silver after.

 

[Crissa]

Windex is what the SC told me to use so that might be why it’s being used. I tried it on a small spot and it didn’t clean anything.

What do you recommend?

Windex is a base, designed for removing oils from glass. It'll work great on fingerprints, but... That's all it does.

Using it for any cleaning other than fingerprints from glass is almost pointless.

You need to use the right thing for the right stain. Stainless is easy to care for - easier than paint - but one thing it doesn't like being left on it is bases.

I have no idea why the service center would recommend it, they're supposed to recommend an unnecessarily fancy product.

-Crissa

 

[tmeyer3]

Folks, bkf is oxalic acid that repassivates your steel every time you use it. YES it will look different than the rest of the truck because you've removed a portion of the chromium oxide layer that makes it stainless. If you do the entire truck, wait 2 months for it to repassivate in the air, then apply bkf again it will STILL look completely different than the rest of your truck.

It's not recommended to do this very often. It's stainless because the chromium rusts (chromium oxide) faster than the iron does (ferric oxide), thereby protecting the raw metal underneath. If you apply oxalic acid and rub, you'll leave scratches and patterns--even with something soft--because you're dissolving the top layer in acid.

Using bkf and ammonia products will significantly change the look of the steel for a time. If you're upset about contaminates or iron staining on the steel, try something that is non reactive to chromium oxide like Iron X etc. You'll have much better success, not strip your steel over and over, and remove any ferric debris on/embedded in the surface of your steel. Still shouldn't have to do that very often! Beyond that, soap and water should be plenty.

Cheers!

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

I have switched to a rinseless wash/91% alcohol/water mixture instead of Windex. I honestly don’t know how bad Windex is for the metal. Some people really frown at it on here and maybe that’s overblown. I don’t know. But until there’s more long term info about it, I’ve switched to this other mixture that is close to neutral pH. Also, no it doesn’t leave it “mirror shiny” but it does remove some of the patina.

I'll help with the answer and it's long term info. The main issue with Windex is the ammonia. It will corrode stainless steel... not rust it, but can cause a yellowing by a build up of the reaction between the ammonium hydroxide (Thats ammonia gas dissolved in water which produces NH4OH).

If you are interested in how it works as well as discussion on time and depth of corrosion, there is a great scientific paper here:

https://super-metals.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/article_17thoct.pdf

Ammonia gas itself has no impact on stainless, but the ammonium hydroxide will react with it.

In the short term, it shouldn't hurt the stainless. But if you continually clean it with ammonium hydroxide (anything ammonia based that is liquid), you will discolor the stainless. You can certainly use Windex that isn't ammonia based, but I would be careful about long term use of anything with ammonia.

UPDATE: Changed the last sentence above to not be confusing.

 

[TECH49]

Thank for the ammonia information.

After reading endlessly about taking care of the stainless, I dove in this morning. BKF, sponge, copious amounts of wide painters tape, many microfiber towels, and ammonia free Windex.

Things to share:

• I put the truck on HIGH suspension to make it easier to get to the low panels.
• It takes quite awhile to apply the masking tape around each panel. And a lot of tape.
• It's hard to get BKF applied evenly across an entire panel, and you can tell if you don't.
• I rinsed with Windex, and used 2 towels, but I wasn't happy with the last wiping because I was not able to get the panel completely streak free ever. I ended up spritzing the dry-ish towel and working the panel until it was done. I'm sure like many, I'm picky and that was a process.
• After 2 panels, I changed the rinse to my bottle of ONR, and added a cup of 91% alcohol (Like Texarado). I used this from this point on.
• After 2 more panels, I switched to paper towels for the initial rinse removal. It was faster and didn't have any apparent affect on the panel.
• I don't want to do this very often.

It looks much better, and it did remove a palm print that ONR didn't remove, and whatever was used by Tesla to try and remove that print, as it ran down the driver's door leaving a stain, and I couldn't remove it until I used BKF.

I guess we will all need a towel and a bottle of ONR mix for finger print removal. I know I will be keeping one with me

Doing the front:

 

[Texarado]

You can certainly use Windex that isn't ammonia based, but I would be careful about long term use.

Why do you say be careful about long term use if it’s not ammonia based?

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Why do you say be careful about long term use if it’s not ammonia based?

Sorry... I wasn't clear. If its not ammonia based, you don't have to worry. You do need to be careful long term if its ammonia based. Sorry... the sentence was unclear.

 

[Crissa]

Folks, bkf is oxalic acid that repassivates your steel every time you use it. YES it will look different than the rest of the truck because you've removed a portion of the chromium oxide layer that makes it stainless. If you do the entire truck, wait 2 months for it to repassivate in the air, then apply bkf again it will STILL look completely different than the rest of your truck.

It's not recommended to do this very often. It's stainless because the chromium rusts (chromium oxide) faster than the iron does (ferric oxide), thereby protecting the raw metal underneath. If you apply oxalic acid and rub, you'll leave scratches and patterns--even with something soft--because you're dissolving the top layer in acid.

Using bkf and ammonia products will significantly change the look of the steel for a time. If you're upset about contaminates or iron staining on the steel, try something that is non reactive to chromium oxide like Iron X etc. You'll have much better success, not strip your steel over and over, and remove any ferric debris on/embedded in the surface of your steel. Still shouldn't have to do that very often! Beyond that, soap and water should be plenty.

Cheers!

This is a massive exaggeration, but basically true.

An acidic cleaner will always be resetting the surface towards bright, but the amount that it erodes isn't measurable in human lifetimes.

-Crissa

 

[tmeyer3]

This is a massive exaggeration, but basically true.

An acidic cleaner will always be resetting the surface towards bright, but the amount that it erodes isn't measurable in human lifetimes.

-Crissa

When did I say it'd erode in your lifetime? Applying oxalic acid often will significantly change your finish over time, especially if you're rubbing/scrubbing at it.

 

[Crissa]

• I rinsed with Windex, and used 2 towels, but I wasn't happy with the last wiping because I was not able to get the panel completely streak free ever. I ended up spritzing the dry-ish towel and working the panel until it was done. I'm sure like many, I'm picky and that was a process.

Yeah, this is because windex is designed to be a solvent for oils, but Bar Keeper's Friend is an acid and solids slurry. The combination of the two creates salts which requires liberal amounts of water to remove.

When did I say it'd erode in your lifetime? Applying oxalic acid often will significantly change your finish over time, especially if you're rubbing/scrubbing at it.

Where did I say you said that?

The finish will be closer to new using a stainless steel cleaner than if you don't.

-Crissa

 

[Kahpernicus]

Barkeep contains 10% oxalic acid in powder form before diluting it to a paste.

It's not resurfacing anything.

It's a different type of acid.

 

[Mrp911]

This is my reference and learning for BKF PH, what to expect, how to apply, windex process.



Expect patina to be removed and the stainless to be bright especially in sun. I am good with the look.

If you don’t want a patina change wrap it with ppf cleared gloss or colored.

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