Cybertruck launch delayed again - Per AutoForecast Solutions - until Oct 2023

firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
172
Messages
2,542
Reaction score
4,042
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
Why are you comparing 100 computers to 1 CT. Call it a $50 license vs a $12000 license. No comparison.

But you think comparing a piece of software for a $250 PC to a $60,000 vehicle is equivalent?

A closer match would be at least 24-core Intel Xeon server ( $30,000 )

-------------

$7,000 Microsoft 1-pack WS Datacenter 2019 64 SP 24-Core
License Quantity: 24 Core
License Pricing: OEM
https://www.provantage.com/microsoft-p71-09053~7WWFFCCT.htm

-------------


HPE FAQ for Microsoft OEM licensing— Windows Server Licensing FAQ for Windows Server OEM products on HPE servers
https://www.hpe.com%2Fpsnow%2Fdoc%2F4aa4-3787enw

.....
26. Can I transfer my OEM license to another server?
If you think you will want to be able to transfer your OEM license to another server, then you may acquire that right—plus other benefits—by purchasing Microsoft Software Assurance (SA) from a Microsoft licensing reseller within 90 days of your original purchase of the HPE OEM license. It is important to note that only licenses for the latest version of a product are eligible for SA.

There are also Windows Server OEM offerings from Hewlett Packard Enterprise that include reassignment rights, for instance the Windows Server 2019 Standard Additional License and the Windows Server 2019 Datacenter license with reassignment rights. Both products include the COA adhered to a license card and can be reassigned to another server.

Otherwise, you may not move an OEM license to another server. Microsoft OEM licensing (including COEM, HPE OEM, and other OEM licensing) is part of the server on which it was issued, as explained in the license terms that accompany the license.

.....
28. If I “retire” a server with an OEM license on it, can I use that software on a new server?
No. To put it simply, an OEM product is “married” to the original server on which it was installed. OEM licenses are not transferable from one machine to another, unless covered by Microsoft Software Assurance (SA) or reassignment rights are specified within the product terms also known as the End User License (EULA) of the product (e.g., Windows Server Datacenter with reassignment rights). The software cannot be moved from server to server, even if the original server it was installed on is no longer in use. This is true for all OEM software—both OSEs and applications. Note that OEM CALs are different: they must be associated with a single user or device, but the license owner may change that assignment if, for example, an employee or device is replaced.


-------------

Microsoft Windows series operating system are extremely mature software that has not made a meaningful improvement in 15 years. If I could get a bug fixed version of Windows XP I would use it and be willing to pay more for it than the bloated junk with all the tracking Microsoft forces on us today.

Windows is so mature that nobody should have to pay more than a nominal yearly maintenance cost to use it. Same cost as Linux yearly support service.
Everybody can get a better operating system for free download from many major web sites (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Linux Mint, Arch Linux, Fedora, etc).

Tesla's FSD is a leading-edge advanced AI software product that is in advanced development trying to solve a complex critical problem that has never been solved before.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

Tinker71

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Threads
82
Messages
1,484
Reaction score
1,967
Location
Utah
Vehicles
1976 electric conversion bus
Occupation
Project Manager
Country flag
The point is licenses frequently are paired with hardware or there is a maintenance agreement required to maintain updates. It costs money to keep software updated over the life of a device. The longer the device lasts, the higher the maintenance is.
This has little to do with transferring to another vehicle. Maybe all FSD prepaid should expire after 10 years. Maybe FSD 2032 and beyond will only work with H5 hardware. H4 will no longer be supported. Kind of like 3g cell phones today.
 

Tinker71

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Threads
82
Messages
1,484
Reaction score
1,967
Location
Utah
Vehicles
1976 electric conversion bus
Occupation
Project Manager
Country flag
But you think comparing a piece of software for a $250 PC to a $60,000 vehicle is equivalent?

A closer match would be at least 24-core Intel Xeon server ( $30,000 )

-------------

$7,000 Microsoft 1-pack WS Datacenter 2019 64 SP 24-Core
License Quantity: 24 Core
License Pricing: OEM
https://www.provantage.com/microsoft-p71-09053~7WWFFCCT.htm

-------------


HPE FAQ for Microsoft OEM licensing— Windows Server Licensing FAQ for Windows Server OEM products on HPE servers
https://www.hpe.com%2Fpsnow%2Fdoc%2F4aa4-3787enw

.....
26. Can I transfer my OEM license to another server?
If you think you will want to be able to transfer your OEM license to another server, then you may acquire that right—plus other benefits—by purchasing Microsoft Software Assurance (SA) from a Microsoft licensing reseller within 90 days of your original purchase of the HPE OEM license. It is important to note that only licenses for the latest version of a product are eligible for SA.

There are also Windows Server OEM offerings from Hewlett Packard Enterprise that include reassignment rights, for instance the Windows Server 2019 Standard Additional License and the Windows Server 2019 Datacenter license with reassignment rights. Both products include the COA adhered to a license card and can be reassigned to another server.

Otherwise, you may not move an OEM license to another server. Microsoft OEM licensing (including COEM, HPE OEM, and other OEM licensing) is part of the server on which it was issued, as explained in the license terms that accompany the license.

.....
28. If I “retire” a server with an OEM license on it, can I use that software on a new server?
No. To put it simply, an OEM product is “married” to the original server on which it was installed. OEM licenses are not transferable from one machine to another, unless covered by Microsoft Software Assurance (SA) or reassignment rights are specified within the product terms also known as the End User License (EULA) of the product (e.g., Windows Server Datacenter with reassignment rights). The software cannot be moved from server to server, even if the original server it was installed on is no longer in use. This is true for all OEM software—both OSEs and applications. Note that OEM CALs are different: they must be associated with a single user or device, but the license owner may change that assignment if, for example, an employee or device is replaced.


-------------

Microsoft Windows series operating system are extremely mature software that has not made a meaningful improvement in 15 years. If I could get a bug fixed version of Windows XP I would use it and be willing to pay more for it than the bloated junk with all the tracking Microsoft forces on us today.

Windows is so mature that nobody should have to pay more than a nominal yearly maintenance cost to use it. Same cost as Linux yearly support service.
Everybody can get a better operating system for free download from many major web sites (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Linux Mint, Arch Linux, Fedora, etc).

Tesla's FSD is a leading-edge advanced AI software product that is in advanced development trying to solve a complex critical problem that has never been solved before.
Since the software has significant value, yet doesn't get damaged in an accident, maybe paying upfront the right to move it to another vehicle is the best option. I hope that is available. I would rather do that than pay replacement cost for an extra $12,000 for the life of the vehicles.

Tesla insurance will probably have a solution as well.
 

JBee

Well-known member
First Name
JB
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Threads
18
Messages
4,752
Reaction score
6,129
Location
Australia
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Occupation
. Professional Hobbyist
Country flag
Will FSD even be asking a premium in 10 years? I think it will be standard.
 

firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
172
Messages
2,542
Reaction score
4,042
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
Will FSD even be asking a premium in 10 years? I think it will be standard.
Will be standard on Tesla RoboTaxis which individuals might not be able to buy. National Robotaxi fleet run by Tesla and Tesla authorized partners.

In 10 years the only Tesla an individual might be able to buy might cost $80K for the vehicle and $60K for FSD.
 


JBee

Well-known member
First Name
JB
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Threads
18
Messages
4,752
Reaction score
6,129
Location
Australia
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Occupation
. Professional Hobbyist
Country flag
Will be standard on Tesla RoboTaxis which individuals might not be able to buy. National Robotaxi fleet run by Tesla and Tesla authorized partners.

In 10 years the only Tesla an individual might be able to buy might cost $80K for the vehicle and $60K for FSD.
You are thinking against the trend. EM is about abundance and excess, for everyone. That means less cost not more. Unless you are predicting 2-300% inflation?
 

Tinker71

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Threads
82
Messages
1,484
Reaction score
1,967
Location
Utah
Vehicles
1976 electric conversion bus
Occupation
Project Manager
Country flag
You are thinking against the trend. EM is about abundance and excess, for everyone. That means less cost not more. Unless you are predicting 2-300% inflation?
EM did think that RoboTaxi FSD network might be so lucrative that Tesla wouldn't need to sell as many vehicles.

I think there are 2 very distinct separate layers to Robotaxi. Full FSD level 5 plus an AI driven application for matching vehicles to riders at fluctuating price points and wait periods. The FSD by itself is really only for personal use.

We have no idea how much the Robotaxi application will cost except that combined with the actual mile use fees it will be less than unsubsidized mass transit.

The Robotaxi vehicle will likely be a ~ ten passenger van with no driver and super easy access on and off. I am excited to see what it looks like, but I don't expect more than 20,000 will be built. It will not be a consumer vehicle. The Robotaxi vehicle will compete/compliment the independent robotaxi fleet. All but the most efficient light rail/mass transit routes will be eliminated.
 

Ogre

Well-known member
First Name
Dennis
Joined
Jul 3, 2021
Threads
164
Messages
10,719
Reaction score
26,998
Location
Ogregon
Vehicles
Model Y
Country flag
This has little to do with transferring to another vehicle. Maybe all FSD prepaid should expire after 10 years. Maybe FSD 2032 and beyond will only work with H5 hardware. H4 will no longer be supported. Kind of like 3g cell phones today.
I get it, you want to buy a piece of software once, and have a perpetual license for it. You want it to support any new hardware you purchase and any updates for that.

Nobody sells software like that for any platform. Companies that sell software that way go bankrupt.
 

Tinker71

Well-known member
First Name
Ray
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Threads
82
Messages
1,484
Reaction score
1,967
Location
Utah
Vehicles
1976 electric conversion bus
Occupation
Project Manager
Country flag
I get it, you want to buy a piece of software once, and have a perpetual license for it. You want it to support any new hardware you purchase and any updates for that.

Nobody sells software like that for any platform. Companies that sell software that way go bankrupt.
I would I be fine with 10 years per my post. I would trade a couple years of use for being able to transfer it. I freaking hate recurring subscriptions. I refuse ms365. Never I will fully switch to Google if they ever force it.
 

JBee

Well-known member
First Name
JB
Joined
Nov 22, 2019
Threads
18
Messages
4,752
Reaction score
6,129
Location
Australia
Vehicles
Cybertruck
Occupation
. Professional Hobbyist
Country flag
One problem with software, especially in the case of FSD, is that it is very likely to get updates and upgrades as new capabilities and features come along. SO having a one off payment actually makes the least sense, it should be a deposit and a subscription, or just a subscription. That allows the customer to pay by use rather than upfront. ATM FSD upfront is technically increasing the amount the car costs, and as such increasing the loan repayments made.

For the customer it would be better to have a subscription that goes with you on your Tesla phone app, and you can take from car to car, even to a rental or friends. The reason I say this is that it is my understanding that the full FSD stack is being used in all Teslas that have hardware to support it anyway, but customer features have been limited to if the customer has paid for FSD or not. So "activating" FSD is simply a matter of enabling the "outputs" of the feature being automatic pedal and steering wheel control, and displaying some extra features on the display showing what it is doing.
 


Deleted member 5322

Guest
But you think comparing a piece of software for a $250 PC to a $60,000 vehicle is equivalent?

A closer match would be at least 24-core Intel Xeon server ( $30,000 )

-------------

$7,000 Microsoft 1-pack WS Datacenter 2019 64 SP 24-Core
License Quantity: 24 Core
License Pricing: OEM
https://www.provantage.com/microsoft-p71-09053~7WWFFCCT.htm

-------------


HPE FAQ for Microsoft OEM licensing— Windows Server Licensing FAQ for Windows Server OEM products on HPE servers
https://www.hpe.com%2Fpsnow%2Fdoc%2F4aa4-3787enw

.....
26. Can I transfer my OEM license to another server?
If you think you will want to be able to transfer your OEM license to another server, then you may acquire that right—plus other benefits—by purchasing Microsoft Software Assurance (SA) from a Microsoft licensing reseller within 90 days of your original purchase of the HPE OEM license. It is important to note that only licenses for the latest version of a product are eligible for SA.

There are also Windows Server OEM offerings from Hewlett Packard Enterprise that include reassignment rights, for instance the Windows Server 2019 Standard Additional License and the Windows Server 2019 Datacenter license with reassignment rights. Both products include the COA adhered to a license card and can be reassigned to another server.

Otherwise, you may not move an OEM license to another server. Microsoft OEM licensing (including COEM, HPE OEM, and other OEM licensing) is part of the server on which it was issued, as explained in the license terms that accompany the license.

.....
28. If I “retire” a server with an OEM license on it, can I use that software on a new server?
No. To put it simply, an OEM product is “married” to the original server on which it was installed. OEM licenses are not transferable from one machine to another, unless covered by Microsoft Software Assurance (SA) or reassignment rights are specified within the product terms also known as the End User License (EULA) of the product (e.g., Windows Server Datacenter with reassignment rights). The software cannot be moved from server to server, even if the original server it was installed on is no longer in use. This is true for all OEM software—both OSEs and applications. Note that OEM CALs are different: they must be associated with a single user or device, but the license owner may change that assignment if, for example, an employee or device is replaced.


-------------

Microsoft Windows series operating system are extremely mature software that has not made a meaningful improvement in 15 years. If I could get a bug fixed version of Windows XP I would use it and be willing to pay more for it than the bloated junk with all the tracking Microsoft forces on us today.

Windows is so mature that nobody should have to pay more than a nominal yearly maintenance cost to use it. Same cost as Linux yearly support service.
Everybody can get a better operating system for free download from many major web sites (Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Linux Mint, Arch Linux, Fedora, etc).

Tesla's FSD is a leading-edge advanced AI software product that is in advanced development trying to solve a complex critical problem that has never been solved before.
Why did you Bring up Server licensing? Are we talking about commercial use of FAD? Why didn’t you mention that there is absolutely no problems to transfer YOUR PERSONAL PC license on the new PC?

Tesla Cybertruck Cybertruck launch delayed again - Per AutoForecast Solutions - until Oct 2023 01517861-B4A4-431B-B539-B197C886AB5F
 

Crissa

Well-known member
First Name
Crissa
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
126
Messages
16,229
Reaction score
27,097
Location
Santa Cruz
Vehicles
2014 Zero S, 2013 Mazda 3
Country flag
Why did you Bring up Server licensing? Are we talking about commercial use of FAD? Why didn’t you mention that there is absolutely no problems to transfer YOUR PERSONAL PC license on the new PC?

01517861-B4A4-431B-B539-B197C886AB5F.jpeg
Yeah, that's new.

But it only includes updates for a short period.

-Crissa
 

firsttruck

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 25, 2020
Threads
172
Messages
2,542
Reaction score
4,042
Location
mx
Vehicles
none
Country flag
Why did you Bring up Server licensing? Are we talking about commercial use of FAD? Why didn’t you mention that there is absolutely no problems to transfer YOUR PERSONAL PC license on the new PC?

01517861-B4A4-431B-B539-B197C886AB5F.jpeg

99.99% of the 1.5 billion users of microsoft windows series desktop OS do not have a "retail" license". The 99.99% people have a PC maker OEM preload license.

Microsoft gave the The PC maker a special price deal with the following basic conditions.

1. preloaded windows OS (installed by PC maker) on almost every PC shipped.

2. nontransferable - must only be used on original PC
( if repair must be same motherboard. different disk or graphic usually OK)

3. No direct tech support help from Microsoft. PC maker optional provide or user pay MS.

4. Microsoft only provide software fixes on online to end-user.

5. End-user can not sue Microsoft directly. The PC maker is Microsoft's customer not you.

6. PC maker must install Microsoft windows OS on all PC. No competitive OSes or OS-less.
Since Microsoft has been the monopoly of OS since about 1990 this is illegal but Microsoft has lots of lawyers and huge windfall profits Microsoft uses loopholes and even saved Apple from oblivion in 1990s so Microsoft could claim they were not a monopoly.
Microsoft only intended Apple be a fig leaf but Gates messed up and initially missed the Internet, then Internet search, Ipod type market, later smart phones and tablets.

Linux Open Source OSes are more efficient ( less bloat so less hardware needed), more secure, more flexible, no or less user tracking, more respectful of privacy.

Free in Price & free in Liberty LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice can replace Microsoft Office

Even today fear of Microsoft cutting of use of windows OS or even minorly raising the price keeps the major PC makers from doing more than token support for Linux Open Source OS. Microsoft allows a few major PC makers to do token support for a few PC with Linux just to use as excuse with the government.

Microsoft does not allow PC makers to put two OSes on drive (windows OS & Linux) even if PC maker paid for windows OS license too.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 5322

Guest
Nope, it is not new. It always was like this. Our company has 290 PC’s. We do not buy a new Microsoft license when we replace computers. All Microsoft Windows licenses are originally windows 7. Now they are upgraded to win 11 and we haven’t had any issues.
 

Deleted member 5322

Guest
99.99% of the 1.5 billion users of microsoft windows series desktop OS do not have a "retail" license". The 99.99% people have a PC maker OEM preload license.

Microsoft gave the The PC maker a special price deal with the following basic conditions.

1. preloaded windows OS (installed by PC maker) on almost every PC shipped.

2. nontransferable - must only be used on original PC
( if repair must be same motherboard. different disk or graphic usually OK)

3. No direct tech support help from Microsoft. PC maker optional provide or user pay MS.

4. Microsoft only provide software fixes on online to end-user.

5. End-user can not sue Microsoft directly. The PC maker is Microsoft's customer not you.

6. PC maker must install Microsoft windows OS on all PC. No competitive OSes or OS-less.
Since Microsoft has been the monopoly of OS since about 1990 this is illegal but Microsoft has lots of lawyers and huge windfall profits Microsoft uses loopholes and even saved Apple from oblivion in 1990s so Microsoft could claim they were not a monopoly.
Microsoft only intended Apple be a fig leaf but Gates messed up and initially missed the Internet, then Internet search, Ipod type market, later smart phones and tablets.

Linux Open Source OSes are more efficient ( less bloat so less hardware needed), more secure, more flexible, no or less user tracking, more respectful of privacy.

Free in Price & free in Liberty LibreOffice & Apache OpenOffice can replace Microsoft Office

Even today fear of Microsoft cutting of use of windows OS or even minorly raising the price keeps the major PC makers from doing more than token support for Linux Open Source OS. Microsoft allows a few major PC makers to do token support for a few PC with Linux just to use as excuse with the government.

Microsoft does not allow PC makers to put two OSes on drive (windows OS & Linux) even if PC maker paid for windows OS license too.
Don’t shift the focus of this talk!
my point is FSD could be transferable to another car if the owner of the FSD remains the same.
Sponsored

 
 




Top