Double stacked 4680 cells for the Cybertruck long range version?

[CyberGus]

What people don’t know is BAW hired CyberGus as his agent and is trying to get set up for some big movie gigs. That’s why we see so much BAW promotion from the bear.

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[firsttruck]

What! a "windshield" wiper.

CyberGus I am real disappointed in your disrespect of the awesomeness of the BAW by referring to it as just a "windshield" wiper instead of the name it rightfully earned, "BAW" (Big Ass Wiper). Sorry, but your membership in the Club of BAW is under review .

Nobody would disrespect BAW's cousin "BMFW" (bad mother fucker's wallet) like they do to the BAW.

Sigh, it is said that the paths of the BAW and Cybertruck are beset on all sides by critics, unbelievers, shorters, see-ers of vaporware


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Pulp Fiction - bad mother fucker wallet scene
Pulp Fiction | 'BMF Wallet' - Samuel L. Jackson, Tim Roth | MIRAMAX
As Jules (Samuel L. Jackson) and Vincent (John Travolta) find themselves in a standoff with Ringo (Tim Roth) and Yolanda (Amanda Plummer), Jules suggests an alternative to bloodshed. In this scene: Vincent Vega (John Travolta), Jules Winnfield (Samuel L. Jackson), Ringo (Tim Roth), Honey Bunny/Yolanda (Amanda Plummer)

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[slomo]

Rivian is all double stack. In a high clearance vehicle that battery thickness works in the vehicle. Tesla is 2 cm taller with 4680, but I doubt that is a problem.

There is absolutely no reason to expect significantly better 4680 cells from Tesla for CT. Cost is what matters, not wh per cell.

 

[RVAC]

There are about 4 layers of 4680 per pack on Semi, Here is the estimated section view:

Another estimated layout of the 82kWh battery pack:

Double stack 100 kWh is not that far away from us if Tesla can do 4 or more.

Semi is using 2170 not 4680

 

[MonkeyDeLuffy]

Semi is using 2170 not 4680

Tesla will 4680 on both CT and Semi, and will stack up.

 

[firsttruck]

.....
There are about 4 layers of 4680 per pack on Semi, Here is the estimated section view:

Another estimated layout of the 82kWh battery pack:

Double stack 100 kWh is not that far away from us if Tesla can do 4 or more.

Semi is using 2170 not 4680

4680 cells are over twice as wide as 2170 cells but the 4680 are only a little taller.

4680 cells (46mm x 80mm (1.81"x3.15" )) are only 10mm ( 0.39 inch) taller than 2170 cells (21mm x 70mm).

Cooling of cells is done from the sides so maybe the cooling will not add any extra height to a double stack. In a double stack other stuff above and below the cells might require additional layer and consume height. Stuff like structure, electrical buses/wires, monitoring wires, fusing.

If a complete structural pack that contained double stacked 2170s was 210mm (8.27 in) then a complete structural pack that contained double stacked 4680s might only be 20mm (.78") taller at 230mm (9.05 in).

 

[Crissa]

Tesla will 4680 on both CT and Semi, and will stack up.

Eventually. The Semi doesn't plan to in the current investor-revealed data.

-Crissa

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

Not a silly question, but a single layer pack would need a 4680 to store around 200 Wh, or more than double than now

Specific energy for that is around 560 Wh/kg, so no, 500 miles won't happen in a single layer anytime soon, maybe when the refresh of the refresh of the refresh Cybertruck version launches in a decade

The energy density will be the same or worse for 4680 cells. However, there is significantly more efficient packaging of the cells and they are taller, meaning 50% more energy storage in the same footprint. If a Model X can has 100 kWh and has 348 miles of range, expect a CT to be able to have at least 150kWh in the same space. More likely at least 175kWh.

In theory, a Model X with that size batter would hit 609 miles of range. The CT's increased weight and decreased aero would reduce that significantly, but the reduced weight of 4680 cells would increase it again by around 15% according to Tesla. So with a single layer 4680 sized at 175kWh we are very close to a 500 mile battery, maybe more.

I don't think there will be a double stack, especially since the cells are 15% taller; the added height would reduce either ground clearance or interior space.

 

[Tinker71]

The energy density will be the same or worse for 4680 cells. However, there is significantly more efficient packaging of the cells and they are taller, meaning 50% more energy storage in the same footprint. If a Model X can has 100 kWh and has 348 miles of range, expect a CT to be able to have at least 150kWh in the same space. More likely at least 175kWh.

In theory, a Model X with that size batter would hit 609 miles of range. The CT's increased weight and decreased aero would reduce that significantly, but the reduced weight of 4680 cells would increase it again by around 15% according to Tesla. So with a single layer 4680 sized at 175kWh we are very close to a 500 mile battery, maybe more.

I don't think there will be a double stack, especially since the cells are 15% taller; the added height would reduce either ground clearance or interior space.

I think the x double stacked a couple modules. But great argument all the same.

 

[Tinker71]

4680 cells are over twice as wide as 2170 cells but the 4680 are only a little taller.

4680 cells (46mm x 80mm (1.81"x3.15" )) are only 10mm ( 0.39 inch) taller than 2170 cells (21mm x 70mm).

Cooling of cells is done from the sides so maybe the cooling will not add any extra height to a double stack. In a double stack other stuff above and below the cells might require additional layer and consume height. Stuff like structure, electrical buses/wires, monitoring wires, fusing.

If a complete structural pack that contained double stacked 2170s was 210mm (8.27 in) then a complete structural pack that contained double stacked 4680s might only be 20mm (.78") taller at 230mm (9.05 in).

Great share. I never thought to put modules on end like that. Maybe the big pack can use some sail space? The semi can get away with it. Moving the center of gravity up doesn't hurt the semi

 

[Tinker71]

Great share. I never thought to put modules on end like that. Maybe the big pack can use some sail space? The semi can get away with it. Moving the center of gravity up doesn't hurt the semi

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

I think the x double stacked a couple modules. But great argument all the same.

It does double stack a small portion at the front, yes. The CT may do the same, but I have doubts it will be fully stacked along the passenger underfloor for space reasons.

 

[TheLastStarfighter]

Great share. I never thought to put modules on end like that. Maybe the big pack can use some sail space? The semi can get away with it. Moving the center of gravity up doesn't hurt the semi

Cooling of 4680's is done through the ends. It's part of the reason they can fit more in in the same footprint.

 

[firsttruck]

Cooling of 4680's is done through the ends. It's part of the reason they can fit more in in the same footprint.

If Cybertruck 4680 structual pack is like Model Y 4680 structual pack: Cell external will NOT be cooled at ends.

Tesla Gigafactory Austin Model Y with 4680 structural battery pack

There is a ABS plastic holder under the row of cells.

4680 cells are cooled from their sides (not top or bottom).
A long hollow metal flat ribbon is between the sides of row of 4680 cells.
Cooling fluid (probably water based solution) flows through the hollow space in the metal ribbon.


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4680 Battery Pack: What We Found Under the Foam! Sandy and Cory give an update on the 4680 Battery Pack from our Austin-Built Tesla Model Y.
Jul 27, 2022
Munro Live

Cory:
we can start to see some of the cooling lines but they have a traditional side cooling and you can see one of the tubes right there

Sandy:
initially we had been told and were under the understanding thatthis was going to be bottom cooled and that basically says I don't think so

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Tesla 4680 Battery Pack Q&A - Q19 Bottom Cooling
Oct 21, 2022
Munro Live

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Video is cued to 1:58 - cell cooling ribbon with channels
Whole video is interesting. Start at beginning.

4680 Update Structural Adhesive | Tesla Model Y
Munro Live
Aug 12, 2022
Cory and Antonio provide an update with findings on thermal systems, runaway management, structural adhesive, terminal connectors and get a glimpse at the BMS.

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[Tinker71]

This wouldn't necessarily preclude some vertical sections of cells like the semi.

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