Extended range battery

[cgladue]

Even if they made a special plug, only certified techs with special HV gear are allowed to even touch the HV lines. Another cut-off switch plus coolant and sensing electronics connections would have to be made and installed and make things even more complicated. More connections means more points of possible failure. I don’t believe they even made all the necessary extra connections in the CT for this Range Extender, otherwise we would see access ports, anchoring points, etc in the bed, so it’s going to be a major undertaking. The way I see it due to high voltages, liability/warranty issues this Range Extender feature can only be removed/installed by a Service Center.

If they can make a Chademo/NACS cable/plug that mere mortals can plug in and unplug that can do 400kw there are ways to make it safe for customers. they just didn't think it through or want to. i agree it was a last minute addition

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[carsly]

I'd like to see the range extender be a rackable housing with built-in cooling. The batteries themselves could be like server racks that you slide in, mount and lock. Maybe 40-60lb battery slabs. If 60lbs easy enough for one person to handle, two stacks of four each within the "range extender" housing. Swap in/out as many as you want/need but the housing is a perma-mount.

Tesla won't do this BTW, too many failure points and YouTube videos of influencers fooling with, and damaging, the housing and themselves. Due to stupidness in the world, sometimes we can't have nice things.

 

[agordon117]

I'm not sure about the intent for inconvenience. There isn't a fitting you can make that will never allow an air bubble into the coolant lines. And that can cause big problems depending on where the bubble ends up. I agree that I would have loved it to be removable but there just isn't a reasonable way to allow the customer to attach and remove a coolant line. It would also probably more than double the size of the pack if they gave it separate cooling so that both loops could stay closed.

Normally, I'm the one pointing out that tesla clearly has bad intentions with stuff like this. But in this case, I just don't see it. They cannot allow the built in battery to be compromised by this extended pack going in and out. So the solution is that the customer themselves cannot put it in and take it out. One bubble reaching the wrong place in the coolant lines will cause cavitation, and burn out a pump or reduce the cooling efficiency.

 

[Woodrick]

I'm not sure what you're talking about. I'm not talking about a big battery breakthrough that would have 1000 km of range and charge in 5 minutes. Where did you get that? Sometimes I think you should spend more time reading and less time typing.

I'm talking about the natural, incremental energy density improvements in the 4680-form factor that Tesla disclosed was on their 6-year battery plan back in 2020. An 18% improvement in energy density of the current packs gets them over 400 miles of EPA range. Somewhere between there and 450 miles of EPA range they could claim the battery extender no longer makes sense.

My take is that Tesla was never very serious about the range extender, they just threw it out there as something that they could do. Time will tell.

Also, I never said that most people need it. But there is little doubt that it would increase the utility for people who tow and also to people who want to camp in remote places. And plenty of people think they need it.

I'm not saying anything controversial or that isn't supported by the evidence.

I didn't mean to say a battery that was 1,000 km and charged to 80% in 5 minutes. It was a 1000km battery and a 5-minute battery. Companies make all sorts of weird announcements all the time.

18% is a lot to ask for. They haven't been able to do that with the Model Y or Model 3 in the last 6 years. They've varied only about 10%. I don't think that I've heard of the energy density of the Cybertruck vs the Model 3 yet, so, not sure of the comparison.

Everyone always wants more range, but they forget that they rarely, if ever use it. There was a recent post of a Leaf user who was still happy with his 70-mile range. The car was doing great for him.

Unlike probably 99.9% of the people here, I have actually towed with an EV. I know the shortcomings. I also know how far I CAN go. And it's a real balance to pay $15k to do less Supercharger stops once or twice a year.

 

[Woodrick]

I'm not sure about the intent for inconvenience. There isn't a fitting you can make that will never allow an air bubble into the coolant lines. And that can cause big problems depending on where the bubble ends up. I agree that I would have loved it to be removable but there just isn't a reasonable way to allow the customer to attach and remove a coolant line. It would also probably more than double the size of the pack if they gave it separate cooling so that both loops could stay closed.

Normally, I'm the one pointing out that tesla clearly has bad intentions with stuff like this. But in this case, I just don't see it. They cannot allow the built in battery to be compromised by this extended pack going in and out. So the solution is that the customer themselves cannot put it in and take it out. One bubble reaching the wrong place in the coolant lines will cause cavitation, and burn out a pump or reduce the cooling efficiency.

Let alone what happens when you connect two HUGE packs together at different voltages.

You weld with 240V 50A. You make things disappear at 800V 2,000A.

 

[agordon117]

Let alone what happens when you connect two HUGE packs together at different voltages.

You weld with 240V 50A. You make things disappear at 800V 2,000A.

Well, there would have to be some kind of disconnect at the connection point of both packs, so that they are not hot when you plug them together. That part is easier to solve than the cooling

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Battery density and software improvements will see a greater range out of the same space.

In addition, every day, more and faster chargers throughout the country, and more pull-throughs.

Whilst there will always be a use case, all these combined lessen the odds of needing to spend $16,000 bloody dollars on a range extender.

Although I agree with you, there is still a use case for people needing/wanting range before than happens, or for people needing/wanting additional range that bought early Cybertrucks. I say that knowing/believing that many of the early purchasers are people that won't use their Cybertrucks the way 'normal' people would.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I didn't mean to say a battery that was 1,000 km and charged to 80% in 5 minutes. It was a 1000km battery and a 5-minute battery. Companies make all sorts of weird announcements all the time.

18% is a lot to ask for. They haven't been able to do that with the Model Y or Model 3 in the last 6 years. They've varied only about 10%. I don't think that I've heard of the energy density of the Cybertruck vs the Model 3 yet, so, not sure of the comparison.

Everyone always wants more range, but they forget that they rarely, if ever use it. There was a recent post of a Leaf user who was still happy with his 70-mile range. The car was doing great for him.

Unlike probably 99.9% of the people here, I have actually towed with an EV. I know the shortcomings. I also know how far I CAN go. And it's a real balance to pay $15k to do less Supercharger stops once or twice a year.

Leaf (and many other non-Tesla BEV owners) have come to grips with the fact that their BEVs cannot be used for trips; they are 'town' cars. For those who want/need to go on trips they have bought Tesla or have experienced extra trauma. In the long run, Elon's vision of replacing ICE cars with BEVs can only come about if households switch all of their vehicles to BEV. Those who would like to do it, such as ourselves, run into these range issues. Do I tow often? Hell no. A few times a year. Do I carry tons of stuff in the back of my car regularly? Hell no. But a few times a month I carry things that require a bed, or payload capacity. I 'want' to switch out ICE entirely. In fact, we have been a non-ICE household for 2 years now. Unfortunately that resulted in NO towing and some very awkward transportation of building materials. So it doesn't matter at all how often people use the extra range. If they ever need it and it isn't there they will stick with ICE.

Regarding your comments about 18% it seems like you have forgotten the Battery Day slides, in which Elon and Drew very clearly said that the 4680 would result in a 50% increase in range. As far as I know they have gotten back to parity with the 2170s, but they have a long way to go for that 50%. Dry cathodes, different cell chemistries, asymmetric layering, etc. may all result in performance improvements and some have talked about a cell chemistry currently being tested that already results in 10%-20% range increase. We can choose to not believe it until we see it, but the fact of the matter is that we know that Tesla is working on these things 'now'.

 

[NiceCybertruck]

It will (if it ever comes) hook up above the inverter in the service port above the rear motor. It will not be something people install at home. Imagine the insane liability involved.

The reason why I asked is, the extender is going to essentially limit what can be done in the vault/bed of the truck. It is going to use up everything but the part of the bed rearward of the service port, which isn’t much, maybe a foot or two with the tailgate open. And since the bed is angled downward towards the rear, that’s going to be really small.

 

[SolarWizard]

The reason why I asked is, the extender is going to essentially limit what can be done in the vault/bed of the truck. It is going to use up everything but the part of the bed rearward of the service port, which isn’t much, maybe a foot or two with the tailgate open. And since the bed is angled downward towards the rear, that’s going to be really small.

It will become an SUV thats accurate but based on what most people in here seem to want to do with them, that’s probably not a deterrent for them

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

The reason why I asked is, the extender is going to essentially limit what can be done in the vault/bed of the truck. It is going to use up everything but the part of the bed rearward of the service port, which isn’t much, maybe a foot or two with the tailgate open. And since the bed is angled downward towards the rear, that’s going to be really small.

That is not what Tesla said when they announced it nor does what you say match the image they showed. Theyvsaidcitcwoyldctakevup 1/3rd of the bed, or 2 feet, leaving 4 feet of bed. What is your source?

 

[Cybertruck26]

That is not what Tesla said when they announced it nor does what you say match the image they showed. Theyvsaidcitcwoyldctakevup 1/3rd of the bed, or 2 feet, leaving 4 feet of bed. What is your source?

I've definitely heard the 1/3 the bed (size) more than anything else.

 

[Woodrick]

Leaf (and many other non-Tesla BEV owners) have come to grips with the fact that their BEVs cannot be used for trips; they are 'town' cars. For those who want/need to go on trips they have bought Tesla or have experienced extra trauma. In the long run, Elon's vision of replacing ICE cars with BEVs can only come about if households switch all of their vehicles to BEV. Those who would like to do it, such as ourselves, run into these range issues. Do I tow often? Hell no. A few times a year. Do I carry tons of stuff in the back of my car regularly? Hell no. But a few times a month I carry things that require a bed, or payload capacity. I 'want' to switch out ICE entirely. In fact, we have been a non-ICE household for 2 years now. Unfortunately that resulted in NO towing and some very awkward transportation of building materials. So it doesn't matter at all how often people use the extra range. If they ever need it and it isn't there they will stick with ICE.

Regarding your comments about 18% it seems like you have forgotten the Battery Day slides, in which Elon and Drew very clearly said that the 4680 would result in a 50% increase in range. As far as I know they have gotten back to parity with the 2170s, but they have a long way to go for that 50%. Dry cathodes, different cell chemistries, asymmetric layering, etc. may all result in performance improvements and some have talked about a cell chemistry currently being tested that already results in 10%-20% range increase. We can choose to not believe it until we see it, but the fact of the matter is that we know that Tesla is working on these things 'now'.

The Leaf was designed as the daily commuter. But in many areas, even the limited range of the LEAF can allow travelling long distances with so many DC Fast Chargers out there.

You Need Way Less EV Range Than You Think: Study (msn.com)

 

[NiceCybertruck]

That is not what Tesla said when they announced it nor does what you say match the image they showed. Theyvsaidcitcwoyldctakevup 1/3rd of the bed, or 2 feet, leaving 4 feet of bed. What is your source?

No real “Source,” and I get what you’re saying. That’s the reason why I asked about “connection points.” How are they going to get from the Extender, to the connection points? If they’re going to route it under the bed to the connection point, which I hope they will, then we’re fine. But if it were to be attached above the bed floor to the connection points… That’s why I said we would lose more bed than originally anticipated. That’s all, making guestimations, based on an assumption. Nothing concrete, just seeing if anyone knew, owners, or saw a potential route for the connections.

 

[cvalue13]

Where all these RE questions and curiosities are concerned:

Possible the range extender concept was an 11th hour bandaid addition to the delivery event/website launch.

Anyone seen an IRL photo?

Did Tesla have a proto at the delivery event, like the tent protos or other accessories?


There were a *lot* of people at Tesla surprised to learn of the RE at the delivery event (same with the single motor truck). People who probably should/would have known about them is they were anything much more than on-paper concepts/.renderings.

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