Tinker71

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We've had this conversation before.


Why would that stop it? The seats don't lie back into the bed.


Why would that change the coiled length?

The cover does not block the back window when open or close, only while moving, so it doesn't change the length of the cover. It merely passes through the wall.

-Crissa
It looks like a big fat coil on the drawings. The drive is on the coil shaft. It requires something to push up and over. Now that I think about it there might be empty flights in the channels sitting in "empty cars", so the travel length is longer but the actual slats probably do equal ~ bed length. The cars still have to occupy space in the track which may account for what looks like windings.

It looks like the coil would take too much volume if fully retracted. It looks like it currently stops right below the rear window.

I also thought I saw a structural analysis that said they needed steel across the bed wall to make it lighter and efficient.

1645320070133.png
 

Crissa

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The drive is on the coil shaft.
No, that's not depicted in the patent. Roll covers can have drives anywhere and multiple places along the track, they can even be drawn by wires, like curtains. The way it was depicted on the prototype looked more to my like the rolling conveyer system: multiple, smaller motors drive it at key points along the track. This is the least likely to jam, too.

-Crissa
 

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Why would that stop it? The seats don't lie back into the bed.
The point where the cover passes through the bed/vault needs to be protected from whatever load is being carried.

You can’t fill the tray with soil if there’s a hole for the tonneau cover
 

Tinker71

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No, that's not depicted in the patent. Roll covers can have drives anywhere and multiple places along the track, they can even be drawn by wires, like curtains. The way it was depicted on the prototype looked more to my like the rolling conveyer system: multiple, smaller motors drive it at key points along the track. This is the least likely to jam, too.

-Crissa
You caught me, I never read the description until now. I look at the pretty pictures. I am amazed at how vague this is. We might be both right?

[0037] In one embodiment, the motor 320 can directly control the movement of the tonneau cover 110, increasing the speed of the movement relative to when there is any intervening part between the motor 320 and the tonneau cover 110 for the control of the movement of the tonneau cover 110. In one embodiment, a drive assembly is packaged coaxially within the center of the spiral roll of the tonneau cover 110 in the retracted position shown in FIG. 3. In one embodiment, the motor 320 is connected to the tonneau cover 110 via a central rotating drum with a plunging rod and a linear ball bearing assembly mounted orthogonally onto the drum. The plunging rod is attached to a hinged brace which in turn drives the connected movable portion 310. In one embodiment, the motor 320 can rotate clockwise and counterclockwise at a desired speed. In an alternate embodiment, a pair of motors with a profiled wheel can rotate clockwise or counterclockwise at a desired speed. In one embodiment, the profiled wheel includes toothed features which can engage with roller shafts attached to the movable portions 310, and push them out of the opening 130 for deploying the tonneau cover 110 or pull them into the opening 130 for retracting the tonneau cover 110.

[0038] It should be realized that many different mechanisms could be used to open and close the tonneau cover 110 from its position below the cab 103 to an extended position covering the bed 104. Because the tonneau cover 110 is integrated into the vehicle 100 and not attached after manufacture, it can provide strong weather resistant seals whether in the open or the closed position.

Even with the wonders of mass manufacturing this will still cost ~$700 or more which would be too much for a $39,900 truck. This is one of the things that will be simplified or made into an option. We haven't seen it on the last 2 "accidental" releases, so it looks in play.

My vote would be some SS reinforced fabric that covers the bed for aero, keeps wandering eyes from turning in to walking tools, doesn't take too much space or weight to much and keeps my CT affordable. Did I say repairable/replaceable with out selling a kidney.



1645330686854.png
 

Crissa

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The point where the cover passes through the bed/vault needs to be protected from whatever load is being carried.

You can’t fill the tray with soil if there’s a hole for the tonneau cover
...And so?

You shouldn't be pouring soil in while you have the seats down unless you want soil in your seats.

What does that have to do with the rolling tonneau cover?

You caught me, I never read the description until now. I look at the pretty pictures. I am amazed at how vague this is. We might be both right?
Yeah, they really do hedge their bets, don't they?

-Crissa
 

Timoj

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...And so?

You shouldn't be pouring soil in while you have the seats down unless you want soil in your seats.

What does that have to do with the rolling tonneau cover?


Yeah, they really do hedge their bets, don't they?

-Crissa
What is the path of the tonneau cover when the seat/Midgate is up?

What is protecting the tonneau path/rail from the load?

If there’s a midgate it needs to be separate from the seat if in undertray canister for a tonneau is implemented.

There must be no possibility of the load obstructing the tonneau path.

It would be impractical to have an integrated seat/midgate unless the tonneau canister is above the rear window.
 
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Crissa

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There must be no possibility of the load obstructing the tonneau path.
That's like saying there must be no possibility of a load blocking the path of a window or tailgate from closing.

I really have no idea what you're thinking.

-Crissa

PS: Yes, if the midgate is part of the track, the tonneau would be stuck open (or closed) while the midgate was open.

But whatever protects the track from the truck bed could just pop up when the tonneau needs to open or close - and like a window or the tailgate, wouldn't be able to if something was stuck through.

I don't normally close the window or tailgate when something is stuck through it.
 
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Timoj

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That's like saying there must be no possibility of a load blocking the path of a window or tailgate from closing.

I really have no idea what you're thinking.
yes I don’t think you understand the failure mode I’m talking about.

think of a toolbox floating around the bed, heavy braking would cause that to obstruct the path of the cover. Soil would not be able to be loaded unless the path was behind a bulkhead. It would not be practical to have in integrated seat/midgate with a path behind the bulkhead.

Yes, if the midgate is part of the track, the tonneau would be stuck open (or closed) while the midgate was open.

I don't normally close the window or tailgate when something is stuck through it.
People will not want to be restricted in how the tonneau can be extended or retracted by anything other than items they have purposely placed in its path…(bedding, lumber, dog, etc…)

In fact I’m confident, that an upper storage mechanism would be preferable for most use cases.
 

Crissa

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yes I don’t think you understand the failure mode I’m talking about.

think of a toolbox floating around the bed, heavy braking would cause that to obstruct the path of the cover.
Let me get this straight: You left the tailgate(midgate) open, and now you're upset you can't close (or open) the tonneau because your toolbox slid through the opening?

Do you complain that you can't close the window because the door is ajar? Or something is hanging through the open window? Or your toolbox is sitting on the tailgate?

Soil would not be able to be loaded unless the path was behind a bulkhead.
A) It's dumb to put bulk materials into a bed without a tray or skip to put it in. It's messy. At least use a bulk yard tarp.

B) Close the midgate first. Do you pour bulk materials with the tailgate or window open and complain it falls through the opening?

C) A simple cover flap would suffice to keep materials from falling into the track.

-Crissa
 

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Let me get this straight: You left the tailgate(midgate) open, and now you're upset you can't close (or open) the tonneau because your toolbox slid through the opening?

Do you complain that you can't close the window because the door is ajar? Or something is hanging through the open window? Or your toolbox is sitting on the tailgate?


A) It's dumb to put bulk materials into a bed without a tray or skip to put it in. It's messy. At least use a bulk yard tarp.

B) Close the midgate first. Do you pour bulk materials with the tailgate or window open and complain it falls through the opening?

C) A simple cover flap would suffice to keep materials from falling into the track.

-Crissa
Yep, you still don’t understand failure mode… can someone else try explain?
 

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What we have her is a failure to communicate, lol

What is failure mode ?
A. How much are you willing to pay to avoid all potential problems. There's a lot to this, zero tolerance had proven to be too expensive and impractical.

If you're not going to abide by the product's recommendations, the failure is stupidity… and nothing can be done about that.

Use tie down, secure all loads. Especially if the product has a line of sight directly to the back of your head.
 

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The failure mode of 'my toolbox is on my tailgate and I can't close the tailgate' is a weird failure to operate your load, not the tailgate.

-Crissa
 

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The failure mode of 'my toolbox is on my tailgate and I can't close the tailgate' is a weird failure to operate your load, not the tailgate.

-Crissa
We’re not talking about the tail gate. We’re talking about a closure that is out of arms reach if something obstructs it. The tool box was just an example, anything could come loose in the back of the tray

What we have her is a failure to communicate, lol

What is failure mode ?
A. How much are you willing to pay to avoid all potential problems. There's a lot to this, zero tolerance had proven to be too expensive and impractical.

If you're not going to abide by the product's recommendations, the failure is stupidity… and nothing can be done about that.

Use tie down, secure all loads. Especially if the product has a line of sight directly to the back of your head.
In the current iteration, the cover passes between the cabin and the bulkhead. This is not practical with a midgate/seat combination.

Do either of you think it’s acceptable that if the midgate was up, a load of soil or gravel wouldn’t be able to be loaded directly into the tray without a tarp or sheet to stop the path of the tonneau being obstructed?

I don’t think this is an acceptable failure mode.

Passing a piece of wood or a dogs head through a window opening is an acceptable window closure failure mode because it’s easy to remedy and because it’s usually intentional.

Items loose in the tray is not usually intentional and remedying the problem, especially if both the rear seat is and the tray is full, would not be “easy” to rectify.

I’m not sure what is so difficult to understand about this… Are we talking about the same thing?

The path needs to be protected from likely unintentional obstructions, because unlike fingers in a door it’s difficult to clear if an obstruction occurs.
 

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Yes, I think I see your point. fiinallly lol.

To continue : Clearly can’t be the case. But we are referencing rudimentary pictures.

My take was that the seat is an independent item which needs to be folded down … But behind the seat is a configuration as per picture below.

The Tonneau is never exposed to the bed.

1645505230309.png


The glass is a consideration and for safety, will need to be intelligently managed, so it closes first when the Tonneau is in motion. How that is engineered in the seat or its own structure… I don't know.



Cost has been mentioned… And that's a great point. It needs the engineering with the components as we expect, and there's fit-out as well. Perhaps as an add-on ? Or limited to more expensive models. ?
 

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We’re not talking about the tail gate. We’re talking about a closure that is out of arms reach if something obstructs it. The tool box was just an example, anything could come loose in the back of the tray
We're talking the midgate, an apparently you can't be arsed to tie down your load before operating it.

I don't see how this is different than the tailgate or cab door. Why is it out of reach? You have two doors and a vault cover. That's three points of entry to reach it. Have you never loaded a car with seats down?

And there are at least three other panels that open inside the bed - air, power, and smuggler's compartment. All of those could be bothered by you dumping a load of dirt inside.

-Crissa
 

 
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