For Those Waiting for Non-FS Cybertrucks -- Here's the Flip Side to Consider

[pricedm]

I don't really understand how there could be so many people who can afford to pay $80K for a truck but not $100K. If $20K breaks you you really can't afford it. So I am doubting that offering the non-FS is really going to unlock a lot of new buyers. Price will have to drop a lot more for that and Tesla will have to strip out a lot more than trim to make that happen (like four wheel steer and drive by wire).

The delta is more than $80k.

For the Colorado buyer this year of a $80k Model X, the after tax-break price, for those who qualify--is $67,500.

If a non-FS with Core wheels and AS tires is $80,000, I have $32,500 left over to buy the "all road" rim/tire combo.

We have no idea about feature changes between FS and non-FS, other than guessing all "included with Foundation series" are subtracted and a price of $80,000 is achieved.

FSD is not physically attached so does not affect the $80k federal (and many/most state) tax credit vehicle price ceiling.

Buy now for guaranteed fun. Delay for a lower price/lower spec Cybertruck.

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[ModelXer]

There's been a broad perception that the Foundation Series gives us a single substantial feature - Full Self-Driving - and a handful of minor things. The balance of the $20K upcharge being a "tax" for being able to get a Cybertruck early.

The flip side of that perception is that when non-FS trucks arrive, they'll simply be like the FS vehicles, lacking only FSD and badging. And with the $7.5K Federal Incentive on top of the $20K reduction in price, the value proposition of that non-FS truck is going to be vastly better.

It's gonna be a little more complicated.

When you peer more closely at all those "minor" things included with the FS, it starts to become clear that that non-FS-truck-that-qualifies-for-the-$7.5K-Federal-Incentive is going to be quite a bit different from the FS trucks. And not having FSD is the least of it, since FSD can always be purchased after-the-fact, or by subscription.

Optional upgrades I think we can reasonably expect on non-FS trucks:

• 20" Cyber Wheels w/35" AT Tires: $4,000
• White Decor: $1,000
• FSD: $7,000 - $8,000 (can be dismissed since it can be bought later)
• Premium Connectivity will Require Subscription ($100 $10/mo)
• Premium Audio: $1,000
• Heated/Cooled Ventilated Front Seats: $1,000

Some of these will probably be combined. But the bottom line is that none of them, save FSD, can be had without bumping the base price of an AWD non-FS model above the $80K threshold for the Federal Incentive. If you want that incentive you'll have to forego any upgrades.

For many, losing the bigger wheels and AT tires is a squinty-eyed moment. Because for a lot of "truck things," they're strongly encouraged.

The premium connectivity is easy to dismiss because, hey, what's a hundred bucks a month? But that alone, over ten years, would be worth $10,000 $1,000.

Subscribe to FSD over that same ten year ownership and it's over ten grand.

That wonderful audio system that everyone talks about? You'll lose some of that.

And after enjoying heated seats on my Model 3, that Heated/Cooled Ventilated Seat option no longer strikes me as an affectation. I'd really hate to not have that.

The bottom line is that the Foundation Series Cybertruck really is a better value than a lot of people have given it credit for. Doesn't mean it's any more approachable. A hundred grand is a whole lot more than most of us have ever spent on a vehicle. But compared to the option-upgrade pricing that's coming on the non-FS vehicles, the FS trucks come off looking pretty good.

I don't disagree with your analysis and the FS certainly comes with a lot of features for the money. I think it really is a good deal for a fully loaded truck. Compare that to other fully loaded ICE pickups and the price is right in the same range.
OTOH, I wasn't looking for a fully loaded pickup. I wanted a basic pickup. I don't need or want FSD. (I already have it in my Model X and the latest versions work well.) I don't need V2H, a fancy interior, All-Terrain tires, etc. I'm looking for basic

There's been a broad perception that the Foundation Series gives us a single substantial feature - Full Self-Driving - and a handful of minor things. The balance of the $20K upcharge being a "tax" for being able to get a Cybertruck early.

The flip side of that perception is that when non-FS trucks arrive, they'll simply be like the FS vehicles, lacking only FSD and badging. And with the $7.5K Federal Incentive on top of the $20K reduction in price, the value proposition of that non-FS truck is going to be vastly better.

It's gonna be a little more complicated.

When you peer more closely at all those "minor" things included with the FS, it starts to become clear that that non-FS-truck-that-qualifies-for-the-$7.5K-Federal-Incentive is going to be quite a bit different from the FS trucks. And not having FSD is the least of it, since FSD can always be purchased after-the-fact, or by subscription.

Optional upgrades I think we can reasonably expect on non-FS trucks:

• 20" Cyber Wheels w/35" AT Tires: $4,000
• White Decor: $1,000
• FSD: $7,000 - $8,000 (can be dismissed since it can be bought later)
• Premium Connectivity will Require Subscription ($100 $10/mo)
• Premium Audio: $1,000
• Heated/Cooled Ventilated Front Seats: $1,000

Some of these will probably be combined. But the bottom line is that none of them, save FSD, can be had without bumping the base price of an AWD non-FS model above the $80K threshold for the Federal Incentive. If you want that incentive you'll have to forego any upgrades.

For many, losing the bigger wheels and AT tires is a squinty-eyed moment. Because for a lot of "truck things," they're strongly encouraged.

The premium connectivity is easy to dismiss because, hey, what's a hundred bucks a month? But that alone, over ten years, would be worth $10,000 $1,000.

Subscribe to FSD over that same ten year ownership and it's over ten grand.

That wonderful audio system that everyone talks about? You'll lose some of that.

And after enjoying heated seats on my Model 3, that Heated/Cooled Ventilated Seat option no longer strikes me as an affectation. I'd really hate to not have that.

The bottom line is that the Foundation Series Cybertruck really is a better value than a lot of people have given it credit for. Doesn't mean it's any more approachable. A hundred grand is a whole lot more than most of us have ever spent on a vehicle. But compared to the option-upgrade pricing that's coming on the non-FS vehicles, the FS trucks come off looking pretty good.

I don't disagree with you on the value of the FS model. It's fully loaded and is little different in price from fully loaded ICE pickups. It's a really good deal for the money.

OTOH, I'm looking for the basic model. I don't need FSD (I have it on my Model X which is my primary driver). I don't need a fancy interior, high quality stereo, V2H power, or many of the other features on the FS. The basic truck is nearly perfect for my purpose. I suspect the heated seats will come standard, but if not I'll add those and Premium Connectivity. (I have the seat heater on all the time and never use the cooled seats.) I'd rather have A/S tires on 18-20" wheels rather than All-terrain tires. And 200-250 mile range is plenty. A basic truck like this would be just what I need.

 

[dahuman]

I think the flip side for me is I'm looking at multiple EV trucks options, and since I have no interest in the foundation series, I most likely won't get mine for another 1 or 2 years at least, which means if another truck looks better at the time, I'll simply just cancel my reservation and get another truck. There are enough issues that I'm looking at right now that if they don't fix them by the time my reservation is up or they are still charging 5k for that film, I'm probably going to be out of this club lol.....
?‍

 

[Roger@CYBERTRUCKco]

There's been a broad perception that the Foundation Series gives us a single substantial feature - Full Self-Driving - and a handful of minor things. The balance of the $20K upcharge being a "tax" for being able to get a Cybertruck early.

The flip side of that perception is that when non-FS trucks arrive, they'll simply be like the FS vehicles, lacking only FSD and badging. And with the $7.5K Federal Incentive on top of the $20K reduction in price, the value proposition of that non-FS truck is going to be vastly better.

It's gonna be a little more complicated.

When you peer more closely at all those "minor" things included with the FS, it starts to become clear that that non-FS-truck-that-qualifies-for-the-$7.5K-Federal-Incentive is going to be quite a bit different from the FS trucks. And not having FSD is the least of it, since FSD can always be purchased after-the-fact, or by subscription.

Optional upgrades I think we can reasonably expect on non-FS trucks:

• 20" Cyber Wheels w/35" AT Tires: $4,000
• White Decor: $1,000
• FSD: $7,000 - $8,000 (can be dismissed since it can be bought later)
• Premium Connectivity will Require Subscription ($100 $10/mo)
• Premium Audio: $1,000
• Heated/Cooled Ventilated Front Seats: $1,000

Some of these will probably be combined. But the bottom line is that none of them, save FSD, can be had without bumping the base price of an AWD non-FS model above the $80K threshold for the Federal Incentive. If you want that incentive you'll have to forego any upgrades.

For many, losing the bigger wheels and AT tires is a squinty-eyed moment. Because for a lot of "truck things," they're strongly encouraged.

The premium connectivity is easy to dismiss because, hey, what's a hundred bucks a month? But that alone, over ten years, would be worth $10,000 $1,000.

Subscribe to FSD over that same ten year ownership and it's over ten grand.

That wonderful audio system that everyone talks about? You'll lose some of that.

And after enjoying heated seats on my Model 3, that Heated/Cooled Ventilated Seat option no longer strikes me as an affectation. I'd really hate to not have that.

The bottom line is that the Foundation Series Cybertruck really is a better value than a lot of people have given it credit for. Doesn't mean it's any more approachable. A hundred grand is a whole lot more than most of us have ever spent on a vehicle. But compared to the option-upgrade pricing that's coming on the non-FS vehicles, the FS trucks come off looking pretty good.

More importantly, is you can drive it now vs 3yrs from now! The cyber is awesome!!!

 

[CyberTex]

I have a performance Y. It’s my wife’s daily now with the kids. She doesn’t drive much so I can take it whenever I need to. I haven’t driven is once since I took delivery of the CT in March...

Love the CT but still find myself regularly driving the 6 year old Model 3 for quick errands and even longer drives now and then. It’s still such a fun little car and attracts way less attention.

I saw another poster here a few months ago say that when they were in a hurry, they knew better than to take the CT. Lots of people want to talk or take pictures—which I love, but just doesn’t work when you have to be somewhere.

Even visiting Austin the other day, where CTs are everywhere, it still happens. Eventually they will be more common and it will be interesting to see if our attitudes towards driving other cars shifts as well.

 

[WenssCT88]

The biggest downside to waiting is going to be more waiting. Demand is going to 10X once orders for non-FS open up and the prices drop.

 

[Speedr]

I think the flip side for me is I'm looking at multiple EV trucks options, and since I have no interest in the foundation series, I most likely won't get mine for another 1 or 2 years at least, which means if another truck looks better at the time, I'll simply just cancel my reservation and get another truck. There are enough issues that I'm looking at right now that if they don't fix them by the time my reservation is up or they are still charging 5k for that film, I'm probably going to be out of this club lol.....
?‍

For me, the single most important attribute that steers me to Tesla over normal car manufacturers is Safety. Once you know someone who has been seriously injured in a car crash, your perspective changes.

The most public example of this is Tiger Woods. Think of what he would have given to not be in that normal SUV that flipped vs. a Tesla that probable wouldn't have...

Having said that, to each his own. I'm not disparaging you, just trying to give my perspective.

EDIT: Then I see this new account only has 1 posts...sigh, I replied to a troll.

 

[cybrtrk88]

"BUT… the car is an incredible joy to drive". my model Y is still a joy to drive after nearly 3 years. I can hardly imagine it could be better.

It's a totally different car, you'll understand when you get one.

 

[dahuman]

For me, the single most important attribute that steers me to Tesla over normal car manufacturers is Safety. Once you know someone who has been seriously injured in a car crash, your perspective changes.

The most public example of this is Tiger Woods. Think of what he would have given to not be in that normal SUV that flipped vs. a Tesla that probable wouldn't have...

Having said that, to each his own. I'm not disparaging you, just trying to give my perspective.

EDIT: Then I see this new account only has 1 posts...sigh, I replied to a troll.

My friend, look my joining date, I mostly used this site for Cybertruck news in the past, was just here to see what the OP had to say about a flip side and that's my take lol. I have 0 brand loyalty to any corporation is about it, so far, I like the total power output of the wall plugs, I like the price prospect of having a good air suspension system for the price of a non-foundation series.

I'm not a fan of all the issues people are having with the stainless steel panels and I live in the PNW which can be very very bad without having to spend 5k on something that's standard on other vehicles, and there are certain other small problems that they need to fix, also not a fan of the current 340 mile range for a dual motor that I'd be getting if I get one.

I have a huge gripe with the range extender because if I have to get that to get the extra range, I lose my truck bed space.

If I get another brand of EV truck, it's still an EV truck with a skateboard design, I think I'll be safe enough. I put myself at around the half million mark for the reservation on purpose because the general rule is you never buy a new model of Tesla that close to release, I did chuckle a bit when I got the foundation series order offer though, they really need to do better.

It's not like I'm shy about sharing my pre-order number either, it's right on the spreadsheet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Speedr]

My friend, look my joining date, I mostly used this site for Cybertruck news in the past, was just here to see what the OP had to say about a flip side and that's my take lol. I have 0 brand loyalty to any corporation is about it, so far, I like the total power output of the wall plugs, I like the price prospect of having a good air suspension system for the price of a non-foundation series.

I'm not a fan of all the issues people are having with the stainless steel panels and I live in the PNW which can be very very bad without having to spend 5k on something that's standard on other vehicles, and there are certain other small problems that they need to fix, also not a fan of the current 340 mile range for a dual motor that I'd be getting if I get one.

I have a huge gripe with the range extender because if I have to get that to get the extra range, I lose my truck bed space.

If I get another brand of EV truck, it's still an EV truck with a skateboard design, I think I'll be safe enough. I put myself at around the half million mark for the reservation on purpose because the general rule is you never buy a new model of Tesla that close to release, I did chuckle a bit when I got the foundation series order offer though, they really need to do better.

It's not like I'm shy about sharing my pre-order number either, it's right on the spreadsheet ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@dahuman, sorry about that! There's just been quite a few people who have joined recently just to state how they'd never get one (definition of a troll).

In regards to the issues with the stainless steel and having to spend $5,000, I'm not sure what you're referencing. I live in Florida, and although our rain is much more concentrated (i.e. deluge, then sunny, then deluge, etc.) vs. a constant misting, I've had no problems with my truck. I run it through a car wash (gasp...that has brushes) about once a week and it looks great. No issues.

Safety-wise, again, a lot of people don't care or think it won't happen to them. But of all vehicles, Trucks are the worst, and literally don't have to meet half the safety requirements normal cars do. Go look at the Monroe Live tear down of the Ford F-150 Lightning. You'll see how similar their "skateboard" is to the Cybertruck. It's not, as they place their batteries in between the frame rails of the truck. In fairness, it was designed on a very short time frame and was first to market, but in a crash, none of that matters. Again, just my two cents.

Most importantly, I'm not trying to throw shade on you or your opinion. To each his own. Just wanted to give my perspective to help you and others. Good luck!

 

[Stuck4ger]

Most deposits were $100 for a $40,000, $50,000 or $70,000 truck during a time of lower interest rates. You have to know that even at those lower costs, there would be a lot of non-buyers. Times have changed! Those previous non-buyers have fallen to the wayside while higher prices have generated a new class of non-buyers. I myself have had second thoughts, but approaching 77 years old and having the cash, I decided screw it, go for it and chalk it up as another of many bad decisions if it goes south.

I want to party with you!

 

[dahuman]

@dahuman, sorry about that! There's just been quite a few people who have joined recently just to state how they'd never get one (definition of a troll).

In regards to the issues with the stainless steel and having to spend $5,000, I'm not sure what you're referencing. I live in Florida, and although our rain is much more concentrated (i.e. deluge, then sunny, then deluge, etc.) vs. a constant misting, I've had no problems with my truck. I run it through a car wash (gasp...that has brushes) about once a week and it looks great. No issues.

Safety-wise, again, a lot of people don't care or think it won't happen to them. But of all vehicles, Trucks are the worst, and literally don't have to meet half the safety requirements normal cars do. Go look at the Monroe Live tear down of the Ford F-150 Lightning. You'll see how similar their "skateboard" is to the Cybertruck. It's not, as they place their batteries in between the frame rails of the truck. In fairness, it was designed on a very short time frame and was first to market, but in a crash, none of that matters. Again, just my two cents.

Most importantly, I'm not trying to throw shade on you or your opinion. To each his own. Just wanted to give my perspective to help you and others. Good luck!

It's all good, don't get me wrong, that's why I said I'm waiting, I want it to be good by the time my pre-order number gets here officially, I'm currently not impressed by any other ev truck offerings either besides the new silverado ev but the air suspension is not as good compared to the cybertruck in the long run which I care a lot about, will see what happens when they do the off-road version next year.

The stainless steel thing is based on luck I think, some people are reporting rust, Tesla is offering like a 5k clear weather wrap as an option now? I haven't played with the configuration page lately, I should do that later just for fun lol.


edit: yep, found it, this thing. https://shop.tesla.com/product/cybertruck-satin-clear-paint-film basically gives people a peace of mind I guess, for 5k lol. They are also doing these for 6k https://shop.tesla.com/product/cybertruck-color-paint-film which honestly I'd do instead of the 5k clear one.

 

[HaulingAss]

"BUT… the car is an incredible joy to drive". my model Y is still a joy to drive after nearly 3 years. I can hardly imagine it could be better.

Just don't drive a Cybertruck, it might be an expensive learning.

Kind of like when I was I thought bourbon was great, but I made the mistake of trying a fine single-malt scotch. You don't know what you want until Elon figures it out first, and shows it to you!

 

[HaulingAss]

I'm not a fan of all the issues people are having with the stainless steel panels and I live in the PNW which can be very very bad without having to spend 5k on something that's standard on other vehicles, and there are certain other small problems that they need to fix, also not a fan of the current 340 mile range for a dual motor that I'd be getting if I get one.

My gullible friend, you have been fooled by people spouting complete nonsense!

There is no easier care truck than the Cybertruck. I also live in the PNW and my truck has never seen a roof above its hardened steel panels and glass roof. It lives under a canopy of trees in a drizzly rainforest about 1/3 of it life, with tree acids dripping on it, and out under the power feed to our house where the birds sitting on the overhead wire poop on it the rest of the time. Rain, sun, mud, dust, wet leaves and needles, salt air, bug guts, two major oil refineries within 2 miles, you name it, my truck is exposed to it.

Super easy to wash and keep looking nice. I just use a truck washing brush with a long handle and a bucket with warm, soapy water. Comes out looking super impressive, especially if I towel dry it. It's dirty most of its life though, it's a truck!

If you put a plastic wrap on it, PPF or otherwise, your truck has just become more susceptible to damage and more fussy to clean without worrying about damaging that expensive plastic wrap.

Where do you live in the PNW?

 

[CyberTW]

My gullible friend, you have been fooled by people spouting complete nonsense!

There is no easier care truck than the Cybertruck. I also live in the PNW and my truck has never seen a roof above its hardened steel panels and glass roof. It lives under a canopy of trees in a drizzly rainforest about 1/3 of it life, with tree acids dripping on it, and out under the power feed to our house where the birds sitting on the overhead wire poop on it the rest of the time. Rain, sun, mud, dust, wet leaves and needles, salt air, bug guts, two major oil refineries within 2 miles, you name it, my truck is exposed to it.

Super easy to wash and keep looking nice. I just use a truck washing brush with a long handle and a bucket with warm, soapy water. Comes out looking super impressive, especially if I towel dry it. It's dirty most of its life though, it's a truck!

If you put a plastic wrap on it, PPF or otherwise, your truck has just become more susceptible to damage and more fussy to clean without worrying about damaging that expensive plastic wrap.

Where do you live in the PNW?

As a fellow PNW — you rock. Can’t wait to get my CT here in the PNW

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