FSD Lane Selection Woes

[Jhodgesatmb]

I watch new FSD test videos as they come out and the YouTubers are generally in agreement that we are in the "march of 9s" toward unsupervised driving. I am currently using FSD for about 30% of my driving, which has gone way, way up from earlier releases. It really has improved a lot. That said, FSD absolutely sucks on its choice of lanes to drive in, when to change lanes, etc. I consider lane selection to be a primary capability and not an edge case, and I wonder why so many people seem perfectly happy with FSD lane selection. Are you guys happy or just frustrated in a closeted fashion?

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[TyPope]

I'm happy with mine. Every once in a while, it selects wrong. One place, it's always wrong. Two lanes turn right (my direction) after the light. Immediately after the exit, I have to merge over twice in a couple hundred yards to stay on the highway (all other lanes exit right). So, the right choice is to be in the left-most right-hand turn lane. That way, I'm in the proper merge lane for the highway. The right-most lane stays straight and doesn't get on the highway though a lot of people use that lane to merge also.

I have 75% usage and a commute of 80+ miles a day split between rural road, rural highway, and major highways on the beltway and into DC.

I generally take over for that turn-then-merge and then after Fluffy turns into the parking lot, I take over because she slowly pokes around a mostly empty parking lot where I just want to go park at the other end not to keep away from people but because there's a pedestrian walk back there that's actually a shortcut to the building (shh). I can't figure out how to say "park at the end of one of these rows if possible or next to someone at the end who has cheated over so I can cheat near the line to maximize ingress/egress... sigh.

Yeah, I'm generally happy with it.

 

[Mal]

I can't figure out how to say "park at the end of one of these rows if possible or next to someone at the end who has cheated over so I can cheat near the line to maximize ingress/egress... sigh.

Have you tried navigating to a dropped pin near where you want to park (instead of the name of the store or store address)?

Just dawned on me, and now I want to go try it at Costco....

 

[espresso-drumbeat]

I'm mostly ok with FSD's lane selection but when I really prefer another, I nudge it by using the turn signals (I also hope it provides some feedback training data).

Lately, unfortunately, FSD could take a few nudges to actually change, sometimes just cancelling the blinker after few sec.

BTW, you can also force navigation change this way, just activate the turn signal in enough time for the car to do it

 

[Gaximus]

In mad-max it does well, but doesn’t change back in time. It likes to drive in the middle lane which is wrong. It should be in the furthest right lane unless passing. I’ll use the turn signal to get it into the right lane, on a 3 lane road with no other cars around, and after a few minutes it’ll change back to the middle. It’s infuriating. Also it puts the turn signal on way too soon, it should flash 3-5 times before switching lanes. It’ll turn the turn signal on, before it’s even next to the car it plans to get in front of.

 

[TyPope]

Have you tried navigating to a dropped pin near where you want to park (instead of the name of the store or store address)?

Just dawned on me, and now I want to go try it at Costco....

I have. It'll navigate to the back slowly and then pick an empty spot somewhere. But, I want it to park at the very end if possible. It's common to park over the line into the strips a little at the end. It gives the person next to you more room and the person next to that person. I do it for others. Personally, I'm not afraid of parking close.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

I have done the nudge thing and the turn signal thing and that works on the highway, sometimes.

I'm mostly ok with FSD's lane selection but when I really prefer another, I nudge it by using the turn signals (I also hope it provides some feedback training data).

Lately, unfortunately, FSD could take a few nudges to actually change, sometimes just cancelling the blinker after few sec.

BTW, you can also force navigation change this way, just activate the turn signal in enough time for the car to do it

I have tried the various options to coerce FSD onto the correct path, but my concern is that lane selection is something it should do really well (and should have been doing so for years). I am certain that Tesla has the structured information about the roads, so it knows when lanes merge/diverge and it can tell from historic information which lanes get cluttered and when and choose accordingly. I think that Tesla thinks that it can make navigation choices on the spot and that it can change lanes if it needs to, but that is simply not good driving. If they want to say that FSD is 'sentient' then it has to be thinking the way we do; it has to impress. For some things it does, and on a highway where lane changes are pretty simple it does fine most of the time. It is on city streets and intersections where it seems to have the most problems and I am not talking about edge cases but normal driving.

 

[TyPope]

I have done the nudge thing and the turn signal thing and that works on the highway, sometimes.

I have tried the various options to coerce FSD onto the correct path, but my concern is that lane selection is something it should do really well (and should have been doing so for years). I am certain that Tesla has the structured information about the roads, so it knows when lanes merge/diverge and it can tell from historic information which lanes get cluttered and when and choose accordingly. I think that Tesla thinks that it can make navigation choices on the spot and that it can change lanes if it needs to, but that is simply not good driving. If they want to say that FSD is 'sentient' then it has to be thinking the way we do; it has to impress. For some things it does, and on a highway where lane changes are pretty simple it does fine most of the time. It is on city streets and intersections where it seems to have the most problems and I am not talking about edge cases but normal driving.

As an example, an upcoming left turn lane but traffic begins stacking up almost 2 miles away and there's a solid white line for the last 1/8th mile.

You shouldn't wait until right before the turn, stop in the fast lane with your left turn blinker on and hope someone already in the mile-long turning group will let you over. You CAN. But, you SHOULDN'T.

 

[CapheDa]

It mostly does lane changes and lane decisions correctly and safely. The only time it doesn’t is when I have a first time passenger in the truck and I’m showing them how we are are 99% of the way to full unsupervised FSD.

 

[Bill Carlson]

It mostly does lane changes and lane decisions correctly and safely. The only time it doesn’t is when I have a first time passenger in the truck and I’m showing them how we are are 99% of the way to full unsupervised FSD.

1. Lane changes are annoying as said above. Nudges can work with turn signal. Sometimes left turn lane is used through 3-lane stoplight when navigation is straight (random).

2. Speed via thumbwheel is missed. (+5 , -5). In any mode.

3. Varied navigation path based on TOD (would be nice to have a predefined "path to destination with alert on major issues" feature).

4. Some edge cases with stop signs and work-related security gates.

5. Stop Lights on Yellow are frustrating but I understand safety first approach here. It is possible however to be much smoother with speed on learned intersections. Human vs. machine I am sure.

All in all it gets 50% of the driving from me.

 

[CA Boertjie]

I drive 90% using FSD and while lane choice has improved, it remains the most frequent intervention. SoCal freeways can flow at 70 MPH while packed and in these conditions it invariably does not get into the right lane early enough, requiring some dicey lane changes to make the exit (when I don't intervene) - sometimes missing the exit.

Interesting corner case this weekend: we were driving on the 101 through Santa Barbara and had to navigate on what happened to be one of the rare left-hand exits in that area. FSD went to the right-most lane and blew past.

 

[JDin NFLA]

Lane changing on interstates has gone backwards for me. Just did 550 miles and it constantly rides right up to car in front and allows itself to get boxed in. I would have seen the gap closing and moved over earlier. Very annoying since it then slows down dramatically behind the slower car waiting for an opening. And then has to change and speed back up. Also gets way too close at speed behind the slow car. Hope they can figure how to go back a few updates ago and fix.

 

[CyberSav]

Lane changing on interstates has gone backwards for me. Just did 550 miles and it constantly rides right up to car in front and allows itself to get boxed in. I would have seen the gap closing and moved over earlier. Very annoying since it then slows down dramatically behind the slower car waiting for an opening. And then has to change and speed back up. Also gets way too close at speed behind the slow car. Hope they can figure how to go back a few updates ago and fix.

Agreed. Been dealing with this on mine for a while now. In addition to everything you stated, it never chooses empty lanes and chooses to pile up behind cars. If I turn on the turn signal to make it change lanes, it usually ignores me and I end up taking over manually.

 

[Darryl2006]

In mad-max it does well, but doesn’t change back in time. It likes to drive in the middle lane which is wrong. It should be in the furthest right lane unless passing. I’ll use the turn signal to get it into the right lane, on a 3 lane road with no other cars around, and after a few minutes it’ll change back to the middle. It’s infuriating. Also it puts the turn signal on way too soon, it should flash 3-5 times before switching lanes. It’ll turn the turn signal on, before it’s even next to the car it plans to get in front of.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but as I understand the rules on a three-lane highway you should be driving in the Middle Lane most of the time. The right lane is for people merging in and out and the left lane is for passing. Once the pass is complete you come back to the middle. When it's time for you to get off the highway and make a right hand turn first you move into the right lane and then make your exit. Isn't that correct?

 

[Gaximus]

Perhaps I'm mistaken but as I understand the rules on a three-lane highway you should be driving in the Middle Lane most of the time. The right lane is for people merging in and out and the left lane is for passing. Once the pass is complete you come back to the middle. When it's time for you to get off the highway and make a right hand turn first you move into the right lane and then make your exit. Isn't that correct?

The official law in most states is “stay right except to pass“. While I think that most people believe, and most police allow, staying in the middle lane to cruise, and allow entering and existing on the far right, that‘s actually not the law. And it doesn make since sense there is always a merge lane. Its also crazy that traffic will build up due to congestion, when the right lane is empty. I’ll also point out that none of the laws mention speed limit, speed limit has nothing to do with it. Its “slower to the right” if your doing 105mph, in the middle lane and someone comes up behind you doing 110mph, your wrong, and should be in the slower lane. </soapbox>

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