Help. Why not the Rivian?

[HaulingAss]

...But then how do you recharge such a large battery?

-Crissa

With a nuclear reactor and large diameter, pure silver charging cables cooled with liquid nitrogen.

It's expensive but worth it so you don't have to plug in each evening, LOL!

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[HaulingAss]

So if you spent 8 hours on the road every day and 16 hours on a Level 2 charger every night you could keep that cycle going indefinitely, covering 450 miles per day. A road trip from San Diego to Maine would take 7 days

Using Superchargers, the same trip could be done in two or three days.

 

[Crissa]

Let’s say that driving at 65 mph in moderate weather you get about 2.5 miles per kWh. On a 200 kWh pack let’s say you push it and use 180 kWh that day, so you’ve covered 450 miles and it took you 7 hours plus one hour of stops none of which involved supercharging. That’s an 8 hour day on the road. You stay someplace that has a 240V, 48 amp charger. Stick it on that charger and you’ve recovered your 180 kWh in 16 hours. So if you spent 8 hours on the road every day and 16 hours on a Level 2 charger every night you could keep that cycle going indefinitely, covering 450 miles per day. A road trip from San Diego to Maine would take 7 days

Sure, that's nice and leisurely.

-Crissa

 

[Tinker71]

Don’t forget that the Foundation CTs have the all terrain tires. You can downgrade to the all seasons and gain another 10-15% in range. This should put it on par with the Rivian range.

You may be right. I would love to see this proven. Anybody know what the most efficient tire that will fit the CT rim?

 

[Tinker71]

The winter loss is mostly FUD if you have a garage. Real without a garage.

 

[Tinker71]

Just wanted to say thanks to all for taking time to share your thoughts. All super helpful.

We’ve actually also got a 2018 F150 Raptor, and it’s a great road tripper. We drove cross country from CT to CA in 44 hours (drive time) during Covid and it really wasn’t bad at all. Rear seats are huge, and I can confirm, range on a full tank will outlast anyone’s ability to sit in one place. (Our MY lives there but is actually coming back to CT soon)

CT has me captivated. But so does Rivian. Would really like a test drive of both. That seems unlikely prior to having to make a decision.

Again, thanks all, will keep you posted for those that care.

6 pages in and the primary elephants weren't answered. Gen 3 4680 availability and 50,000 reservation number. Since the battery compartment is fixed in my mind, a 15% improvement in chemistry would be close to 15% range improvement.

I think gen 3 will go into production in 2024. How the hell Tesla rolls this into production and reservations remains to be seen.

I suspect Tesla will be more methodical on the reservation conversion next year. Right now they are spreading the CTs out for free advertising. In 2024 if you get the call for a non Foundation Series you will either take it or go to the back of the line, otherwise many people will keep pushing off their reservation for Gen 3. (I would) At 50,000 I suspect you will be forced to take the current tech. RN 200,000 plus will get Gen 3. Just a guess and a large range, but the take rate will only be 10%, so it is mostly about the production ramp.

Gen 3 plus the range extender will give us 500 liberal miles. It will be interesting to see what happens with the FS CT secondary market. I suspect the cost for new Gen 3 will stay the same with the improvement due to competition, but the back log properly enforced will help Tesla through this transition.

Now back the to Range Extender Thread. So many possibilities.

 

[Tinker71]

Incorrect. The battery warms up from waste heat as the car is driven. Tesla has the best thermal managment systems in the auto business. You can see this happen as you drive. It usually takes around 45 miles of freeway driving for the battery to fully warm from waste heat in such conditions. The net effect is that a cold battery doesn't affect range at all, only the useage of cabin heat and the other environmental factors such as denser air, colder tires and bearings (which also warm up on a long trip) and potential winter winds and snow.

Norway is definitely a cold climate and over 80% of new cars sold there are already pure battery electric cars. There is no "struggle" in cold weather. It's simply less range which is taken into account by the size of the batteries in most EV's sold today. Teslas are the most popular EV in Norway, probably because they have superior temperature management systems for cold weather.

Air density increases at colder temps. That is unescapable. Battery conditioning can be managed. If you are lucky enough to have a garage this will help a ton. I suspect that if you are actively driving the ~4% waste heat helps offset the cabin heat requirement a bit. Stop and go trips are very different and will really affect your winter range figure more than a longer single trip.

 

[Stuck4ger]

For me it is the Dyson hairdryer headlights. Just can't

That’s funny, I have always had the same thought — the Rivian headlights look so stupid to me that they are a deal buster.

 

[Woodrick]

What? Rivian is opening their fast DC charging locations up to other EVs?

All 40 of them in North America?

I know, I believe they call it something like the Rivian Adventure Network. But there's one on one of my common trips and I thought that they were 800V

 

[Woodrick]

Cell internal resistance goes up at lower temperatures, so more energy is wasted as heat. Of course, this warms the cell eventually, but there are losses from the cold initially. It’s less of a problem on longer drives, once the battery has warmed.

But if you set the car to condition before you leave while still plugged into power, well those Tesla engineers seems to have minimized the issue.

 

[Woodrick]

...But then how do you recharge such a large battery?

-Crissa

Let's see 11kW charging system (240@45A) takes 200/11?

 

[Woodrick]

Let’s say that driving at 65 mph in moderate weather you get about 2.5 miles per kWh. On a 200 kWh pack let’s say you push it and use 180 kWh that day, so you’ve covered 450 miles and it took you 7 hours plus one hour of stops none of which involved supercharging. That’s an 8 hour day on the road. You stay someplace that has a 240V, 48 amp charger. Stick it on that charger and you’ve recovered your 180 kWh in 16 hours. So if you spent 8 hours on the road every day and 16 hours on a Level 2 charger every night you could keep that cycle going indefinitely, covering 450 miles per day. A road trip from San Diego to Maine would take 7 days

Why in the heck would you spend an hour on stops and not Supercharge?

But I can tell you, that I can get to San Diego to Maine MUCH faster with the Cybertruck's existing battery than your plan does.

If you are doing road trips, having to stay in the hotel for an extra 6 or so hours is a problem.

And my method is significantly healthier. Getting out and stretching every few hours is what every medical professional will tell you to do. My wife had a friend that had a stroke, because he drove straight through.

 

[RayzorBEV]

Rivian R1S owner - generally love the vehicle two things I think are much superior in the Tesla: Autopilot / FSD and Seat Comfort (assuming CT is similar to other Teslas, but I find the Rivian seats uncomfortable in longer drives and putting pressure on the nerve in my leg). The latter is probably a very personal thing. The former is is big deal to me but may not be to you. I use FSD all the time. Also charging sucks because CCS but the SC network adapter is coming soon and being provided at no charge.

On pretty much every other dimension, I have found the Rivian better than my Teslas. Oh, and re the stadium lights, I appreciate that some people do not like them, but I have gotten many unsolicited compliments on them in particular and on the vehicle in general. Now that I have cancelled my CT, I am planning to either go through with the Silverado EV or pick up the R1T Dual Motor.

I'm currently on my 3rd Rivians. I really like them for their higher ride height and off road capabilities. I had a 2022 R1T, kept it for about 8 months, then traded it in for the 2023 R1S. Then I found out how much I loved my R1T and missed it, so I went on to purchase another R1T; all Quad-Motors version. I received my invitation to the Foundation Series Cybertruck so I ordered the Cyberbeast too. I loved my Model 3 (sold it) and my current Model Y LR is so awesome. And I loved the fact that I'm within walking distance to a Tesla SC.

 

[HaulingAss]

The winter loss is mostly FUD if you have a garage. Real without a garage.

This is incorrect, you don't need a garage. As already pointed out, if you charge before you depart, the battery is not cold. Here's how I charge my primary ski car every winter. There is no garage:

No, that's not a minivan, not even a Model Y, it's the best ski car I've had the pleasure of using, a Performance Model 3:

It's low center of gravity and excellent traction and stability controls make it drive like a slotcar in the snow and ice. And the powerful heater comes on instantly with no need to heat up the engine block first. People who say Teslas "struggle" in the winter have never driven a Tesla in the winter. Gas cars struggle in winter, not electrics. Why don't gas cars have traction control as fast and precise as electric cars have? This thing rips on snow and ice! When was the last cold winter morning when you heard a Tesla owner say, "Can I get a ride, my car won't start"?

The Tesla Wall Connector is all-weather rated, all it needs is a bare post, but in colder and snowier climates it always nicer to keep the charging handle out of the snow and ice with a roof over the pedestal. The future of automotive is to have Level 2 charging in parking spots, at work, at home and wherever cars park for hours at a time, big batteries will become wasteful and old-fashioned.

When I lived in Montana, before people had access to practical electric cars, I saw parking lots with pedestals and 120 V outlets for block heaters. Nobody said "What about people who live in apartments without garages? No, people installed pedestals with 120V power in the apartment parking lots. Otherwise, the cars wouldn't start on cold mornings. Now, we have lame people claiming apartment dwellers can't drive electric cars because they don't have a gargae to charge in. It's a fake or misinformed argument. It's actually pretty easy to install conduit and pedestals, it's better than having gas stations on every corner. Fast chargers are only needed for quick top-ups on long drives.

No, electric cars do not struggle in winter, they excel. Gas and diesel cars struggle in winter, they take too long to heat up and noxious emissions that kill and sicken people quadruple in cold weather.

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