How many CyberTruck prospective buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

[jb15]

I've driven both. Currently drive a raptor that i will trade in. Neither appeal to me in the same way as a cybertruck.

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[BayouCityBob]

Was thinking about the title of the thread: "Wondering how many Tesla owners and prospective CyberTruck buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?" and wondering how many may have migrated to the Lightning or Rivian. Got me to wanting to make the obvious point that the total number of R1Ts sold is 30k (total sales 75 k through end of 2023, total vans 15k, total R1Ts half of sales to date) and the total number of Lightnings sold is 15,617 in 2022 and 12,260 so far in 2023 so let’s call it 65 k total through end of year. Out of how many CT reservations?

ahhh but that brings up the point about reservations, because the reason Ford got itself into such trouble, is that it believed the 200,000 reservations for the F150 lightning were real! But they have had difficulty translating into even 35,000 actual sales over two years.

I do not think anyone knows what the real demand for cyber truck or any of these pick ups is at the moment. By one metric, the answer to "how many Tesla owners and prospective CyberTruck buyers have gone over to a Lightning or a Rivian?" is a straightforward 3% - 6% depending on which reservation number you use. OTOH, the translation of reservation holder to prospective owner is very unclear...

 

[rceldib]

Wondering how many Tesla owners and prospective CyberTruck buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

So much of the hype for the CyberTruck strikes me as general hype for EVs without any consideration that not every EV is a Tesla. People seem to overlook that the Lightning and Rivian ARE EVs. The have super smooth, silent, rapid acceleration. They charge at home. They drive effortlessly in traffic. They have 300+ mile range.

Had a Tesla owner in my F150L the other day and they were amazed that the F150L actually drives like an EV. They assumed it would be more ICE like because its built by Ford and shaped the same as the ICE version?

I have owned a 2023 F150 Lightning since February and love it. I own/owned thirteen EVs since my first in 2010 and was an Engine Design and Dev engineer for Chrysler in my early years. I've owned about sixty cars, trucks, & planes. The Lightning is easily the best truck I have owned. The only negatives I have are that the CCS fast charging situation totally sucks and the software sucks too. I need a truck and the Lightning is fantastic. I do not tow more than once every three years so that is no big deal. No over the air updates, CarPlay interface, and Ford Pass Suck. I really want the bidirectional charging to work as we have an all electric house with four BEV drivers and living in SoCal Wildfire area, power goes out constantly. Working on getting it. We have Solar, Powerwalls, and StarLink so this makes things fine. Can't wait for my CyberTruck!

 

[Old Pro]

Wondering how many Tesla owners and prospective CyberTruck buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

So much of the hype for the CyberTruck strikes me as general hype for EVs without any consideration that not every EV is a Tesla. People seem to overlook that the Lightning and Rivian ARE EVs. The have super smooth, silent, rapid acceleration. They charge at home. They drive effortlessly in traffic. They have 300+ mile range.

Had a Tesla owner in my F150L the other day and they were amazed that the F150L actually drives like an EV. They assumed it would be more ICE like because its built by Ford and shaped the same as the ICE version?

I would like to drive the Rivian and the F150 Lightning. Rivian? How and where? Ford F150 Lightning? When I am ready for the abuse of going into an old school dealership and that experience!

 

[HaulingAss]

Wondering how many Tesla owners and prospective CyberTruck buyers have even driven a Lightning or a Rivian?

So much of the hype for the CyberTruck strikes me as general hype for EVs without any consideration that not every EV is a Tesla. People seem to overlook that the Lightning and Rivian ARE EVs. The have super smooth, silent, rapid acceleration. They charge at home. They drive effortlessly in traffic. They have 300+ mile range.

Had a Tesla owner in my F150L the other day and they were amazed that the F150L actually drives like an EV. They assumed it would be more ICE like because its built by Ford and shaped the same as the ICE version?

I don't understand the concept of "driving like an EV". Everyone I've driven drove differently from one another. I mean, yeah, they all drive like they have electric power trains, that should be obvious, but they often have vastly different driving characteristics from each other, particularly when it comes to handling (but also the way the cars respond to throttle and regen).

My question to you: Do you really think a Lightning drives like a Cybertruck drives? I mean, none of us have driven one yet, but those who have driven a Cybertruck have let us know there's a huge difference between the way a Lightning drives and the way the Cybertruck drives. And this should be common sense looking at how their chassis and suspensions differ in dramatic fashion.

Car and Driver reported the Lightning with the extended range battery returned only 230 highway miles at 75 mph. The Dual motor Cybertruck with 35" tires will probably return about 30% more than that on less electricity. Car and Driver says the Lightning with extended range battery (300 mile) has a curb weight of 6893 lbs. without a tonneau cover and only a 5.5 foot bed. And that's with a thin, painted aluminum body and bed that is damage prone.

I mean, yeah, it works, but I don't really think a truck with a thin, damage prone body and bed, no motorized tonneau cover and with less payload and towing capacity, and with less range and less performance and a smaller bed, and without air suspension or four-wheel steering should weigh as much as a Cybertruck with its thick dent and scratch resistant body panels. Engineering matters. Driving dynamics matters.

I don't mean to talk anyone out of a Lightning (the sooner I get to my reservation, the better), but I think there's a real disconnect when people start talking as if they are almost the same thing, almost just as good. Because I don't see that at all, and I think once you drive a Cybertruck you will see exactly what I mean. To be clear, I haven't driven them either, but I don't have to in order to know the difference is huge.

I would also miss the superior software user interface, superior phone app, superior nav system and range estimation, and superior charging network of the Cybertruck. I doubt Tesla is going to open every Supercharger up to non-Tesla in the next 5 years, if ever. I mean, it's not only the big stuff that matters, its all the little stuff. I have a gas F-150 and while the Ford dealers in my area are all friendly and nice, I simply don't like them as a business. We've had at least two Tesla for over 5 years and the few times I've been into Tesla Service, or a Mobile Service Tech has come to our home, the experience is so much better. They are not trying to extract money from my wallet and they seem genuinely happy.

I just don't see how the F-150 competes with the Cybertruck at all unless, for whatever reason, someone has to have traditional truck styling. They aren't even comparable, except perhaps if you are blindly looking at the basic specs and not the driving and ownership experience. Ford did a great job of getting most of the most basic specs close, and that's about where the similarity ends. The trucks are as different under the skin as they are in appearance and almost every difference goes in Cybertrucks favor.

 

[HaulingAss]

Its lighter than the CT (except the Platinum trim).

Is that really true? What makes the 2024 Platinum and the new Flash trim so much heavier than the other numbers bandied about? There is something funny going on with the published weights. I tend to think any 2024 300-mile range Lightning is going to weigh about 6893 lbs. bare and more once you option it up with the usual add-ons. Or have I been misled by Car and Driver?

 

[CyberCowboy]

Bought the F150L to hold me over while waiting for the CT that I was very excited based on the intro 4 years ago. But the F150L has far exceeded my expectations and is the best truck for me that I have ever owned. And the CT came out with lower specs and higher price. No $50k AWD model with 3500lb payload. So its going to be a high bar to switch horses at this point.

But theF150L is of course not perfect. There are some areas of opportunity, and to the extent the CT can fulfill those, I might still be interested.
- The payload and bed on the F150L Pro are 2200 lbs in a 5.5' box. Going down from a Chevy 2500 with the 6' 8" bed and around 3800 lbs payload, the cargo capabilities are something I sometimes miss. Not a deal breaker, but an annoyance to have to get out the utility trailer when i need to haul heavier or larger stuff. I lobbied hard for them to make the CT bed larger and was excited about the 3500 lb payload. Will have to see if ithe CT bed is really bigger in a practical way. Kind of thinking its not a huge improvement over the F150L 5.5 box.
- The range for towing is sometimes limiting with my F150L SR. I would be interested to upgrade to a truck with a bigger battery for occasional longer distance towing. Again, not a deal breaker as this is an occasional need. Can plan around it by making sure the truck is fully charged the day before, or stopping at a fast chargers.
-As a new EV owner, the availability of fast charging network was a concern. Drove the truck home from an out of state dealer, and while there were some chargers with malfunctioning card readers, didn't relly experience any difficulty on that one and only road trip. I would perhaps have taken a couple of more road trips in the F50L over the past year if it had better charging network. But again, this is an occasional need, and I have other vehicles that can fulfill that. If the Tesla Supercharger deal comes through, this concern may be eliminated.
- The Ford app software sucks. But doesn't really matter that much for me,. The in-truck software is OK. Could be better. They have updated it quite a bit over the year and fixed a lot of the defects.

Some things I already know would be a downgrade, barriers, or concerns to moving to the CT:
- The F150L interior is huge. And you sit fully upright. Like all traditional full sized trucks. One of the reasons big guys like me love full sized trucks even for simple commute. Afraid the CT will feel cramped. Wiil have to drive one to make a decision.
- The CT appears to have horrible rear visibility. For backing into and out of parking situations that is going to be annoying. From experience with other vehicles with poor rear visibility, there are limitations to camera systems. They get dirty, sun flare, rain, snow, etc.
- I Like the knobs, stalks, traditional controls in the F150L. Especially actually prefer the setup with the smaller screen in the Pro. as compared to Lariat or Platinum. Controlling things via touch screen while driving is not the best interface. Not a deal killer, and I have not owned a Tesla, so not so sure how annoying this would be, but I would want to explore this aspect more before jumping in.
- Local Dealers. Unlike others, i actually find value in local dealers. The ability to test drive a vehicle, or get parts, or have service done, or actually talk to somebody on the phone who can track down an actual answer is useful to me. Saves me time. Yes, there are lots of negatives with bad dealers. And yes, they can waste your time during the traditional sales process. But easy enough to take the positives and avoid the negatives.
- The stainless. Love the idea in regards to durability of the bed and perhaps imperviousness to door dings. But it will always look dirty and have fingerprints. I wash my vehicles like once a year. I need a plain white truck that shows the least amount of dirt.
- Elon Musk. (politics, so will stop there).
- $34,000 more for the CT AWD as compared to what I paid for my F150L Pro. (Not considering what i might lose on the F150L). I don't need power leather seats or other "premium' interior like 15 speakers, etc. Too bad there is not an entry level CT still with AWD.

Still don't understand why we're having this dialogue. Why should the vehicles I have/haven't driven be of any relevance to anyone other than myself? You made a decision to purchase the Ford and you obviously love it. I'm purchasing the Cybertruck, which I'm sure I'll love and enjoy and I don't need any outside input/feedback from anyone else...am I missing something?

 

[flowerlandfilms]

Not Cyber enough.

 

[Keeney]

Is that really true? What makes the 2024 Platinum and the new Flash trim so much heavier than the other numbers bandied about? There is something funny going on with the published weights. I tend to think any 2024 300-mile range Lightning is going to weigh about 6893 lbs. bare and more once you option it up with the usual add-ons. Or have I been misled by Car and Driver?

(edited this response now that I found the Ford Specs on their website again).
Lightning starts around 6015lbs in the bare Pro model and goes up to the 6893 number you mentioned with a fully loaded Platinum trim package:

Base Curb Weight - Standard Range Battery	6,015 lbs.
Base Curb Weight - Extended Range Battery	6,361 lbs.
Base Curb Weight w/20 inch A/T Tire	6,597 lbs.
Base Curb Weight Platinum	6,893 lbs.

Mostly its the upgraded 22" wheel and tire package that is standard on the Platinum that adds that last bit of weight that pushes it higher than the CT. But same increase on the CyberTruck if you put on heavier wheels.

CT Specs:
RWD - not published on Tesla's website.
AWD: 6603 lbs
Beast: 6843 lbs.

Ford seems to spec the Lightning to stay near the 8500 lb class 2A GVWR and the payload reflects staying right near that number:

Engine	GVWR (lbs.)	lbs.
Standard Range Battery	8,250	2,235
Extended Range Battery	8,550	1,952
Extended Range Battery with 20" A/T Tires	8,400	1,802
Platinum	8,550	1,656

Tesla seems happy to have the CT GVWR go well over 8500 lbs and push up into Class 2B so they can claim 2500 payload, even on the heavier optioned Beast. and Foundation models. But Tesla doesn't go all he way to 10,000 lbs, likely because of tire and wheel load limits. Class 2B is usually the domain of 3/4 and 1 ton light trucks with 8 lug wheels and load range E tires.

 

[Keeney]

Still don't understand why we're having this dialogue. Why should the vehicles I have/haven't driven be of any relevance to anyone other than myself? You made a decision to purchase the Ford and you obviously love it. I'm purchasing the Cybertruck, which I'm sure I'll love and enjoy and I don't need any outside input/feedback from anyone else...am I missing something?

This is the "CyberTruck v. Competition" section of the forum, so seems an appropriate place to compare and contrast competing vehicles.
When everyone here thought the CyberTruck would be 3500 lb payload, 14,000 towing, and cost $50k, there was probably not a lot of reason to shop around. Everything else could not match those specs on paper. Just curious that now that reality is hitting, have people considered that there other options that are competitive on specs and price.
For myself, as I try and decide if I am keeping the Lightning or buying a CT, I am trying to understand the hype - is there something I am missing about the CT that explains why people are so devoted to it when on paper its not really that much more capable of a vehicle for the price.
I know that nerdy debate can seem like nitpicking and tearing down something that other people are looking forward to buying. Not my intention to make anybody enjoy their CT purchase any less. And not trying to be confrontational.
Pretty sure anybody who gets behind the wheel of the CT is going to 99% love it.

 

[Coolbreeze704]

But yet, here I am, ~18mo into having a Lightning and loving it. I’ve driven 1/2 ton trucks for 30 years, mostly Ford (not by tribalist dogma, but by case-by-case preference decisions between then-available models). And, for my use cases and decision tree nodes, it’s the best pickup I’ve ever driven or owned, BEV or ICE.

I agree. The Lightning is just a F150 with a battery is not completely accurate to begin with. The independent rear suspension is a big change from the standard F150 solid rear axle and leaf spring. It makes a massive change in ride quality. It is a joy to drive. My only grief is charging network (soon to change) and the software.

I may also add that as much as the CT minimalist design is smart in many ways (best port is no part) I have a hard time adapting to my wife's MY with climate, wipers and in the CT lack of a stalk for turn signals. I like the Lightnings knobs and stalks although with time I am sure I would adapt to the CT.

What drives me to want to follow through with the CT is more AP and FSD along with the believe it could be my last purchase with the SS exterior, the proven drivetrain and battery pack and over the air updates. With that said if the price goes up anymore or my financial situation were to change I could be happy for a long time with the Lightning.

 

[TruckDaddy]

I have a hard time adapting to my wife's MY with climate, wipers and in the CT lack of a stalk for turn signals. I like the Lightnings knobs and stalks although with time I am sure I would adapt to the CT.

You can just push the button on the right side of the steering wheel, and say things like "Turn on Wipers. Increase wiper speed. Set AC to 65°." And a hundred other commands in the Tesla.

 

[Coolbreeze704]

You can just push the button on the right side of the steering wheel, and say things like "Turn on Wipers. Increase wiper speed. Set AC to 65°." And a hundred other commands in the Tesla.

I'm a shy introvert? Don't like talking much?

No, u are right and lately I have started getting used to what commands to give. Like I did say, I believe I would adapt over time.

 

[RayzorBEV]

I've owned a Glacier White 2022 Rivian R1T for about 8 months, currently own a Compass Yellow 2023 R1T and a El Cap Granite 2023 R1S

 

[Coolbreeze704]

I've owned a Glacier White 2022 Rivian R1T for about 8 months, currently own a Compass Yellow 2023 R1T and a El Cap Granite 2023 R1S

Wow, nice. Which one is your favorite?

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