Is factory pick-up a no-go for 2 more years?

[John K]

young water moccasins are deadly.....havn't used their venom so it is very concentrated

Another nope.

I like snakes btw. No fear, just respect. Any water snake concerns me more. They swim faster than I do.

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[drscot]

Didn't you train your kids to look both ways before crossing the street? Likewise, I taught my son to identify potential hazards in the bush and how to handle them and keep moving, and not let the small things worry him. Why just this past week on an outing we encountered gators just a few feet away and venomous snakes (juvenile water moccasins) and thought nothing of it, just other critters out and about on a nice day. No problem.

Small things, huh? Baby Rattlers are small things for sure. So are Pygmy Rattlers. Don't worry! Gators? Of course! Tell that to the family who lost a toddler to a hungry gator at Disney World. A juvenile cottonmouth bite is not something you will merely "shake off" and keep your limb. Limbs rot with such bites, but hey, you've got extra, right? And you can always make more babies because God knows kids are not the most experienced or coordinated, nor are their brains developed to the extent of making sound judgements at all times (that's why parents make the important decisions in life and not children in training.... hopefully). Complacency will frequently get you in trouble, but foolishness can get you dead. Try taking a family outing through the Darién Gap spanning Colombia and Panama, which is infested with the deadly Fer-de-Lance snakes and many others. Nonchalant attitudes will quickly be adjusted or simply extinguished. "Small things" will readily kill you. No matter how well you teach a child, their brains are not fully developed. Though taught, they don't always think.
I once had a father brought into me at the ER. He and his son were out hunting on 4 wheelers, and having a great time. Son (12 years old I think, don't remember for sure) didn't remember if he had put the safety on his rifle, so he reached back to check, pulling the trigger to make sure. It wasn't. The rifle fired, striking the father in the chest, killing him instantly. They brought him to me, but the poor man was dead. I couldn't help him. The poor boy has to live for the rest of his life, knowing he killed his own father all because of a stupid mistake that he knew better than to do. No matter how well you teach your children, they are still immature versions of you, and if you are nonchalant, watch out!
Rattlesnakes and Cottonmouths strike fast (I missed getting bitten on my leg by 4 inches by a Cottonmouth), but they strike in slow-mo compared to the Fer-de-Lance. So fast that you must film them in slow motion to even know they struck, and if you don't have antivenom within 10 minutes, you are stone cold dead. If it is a big one, it won't matter. Lay back, smoke a cigarette even if you are a non-smoker and wait until it is lights out. If you wish to be nonchalant about creatures that can kill or maim, by all means do so with your own life and I shudder to say, your own children, but don't be a purveyor of a false sense of minimized danger to the uninitiated, ignorant, and in some cases, the frankly stupid. I have treated children for venomous snake bites before. It scared the hell out of me each time. The parents did NOT bring them in with a swagger and bravado exclaiming "well he should have known better because I taught him better than to get bit!"
Even though I appear NOT to be allergic to poison ivy after having discovered myself inadvertently in patches of it after escaping yellow jackets, I don't intentionally expose myself to it except on occasion and purely by accident and without any ill effects. I consider myself lucky and not one to push my luck. Same thing with dangerous reptiles. My friend who had rattlesnakes? He also had Caimans. His dad (an architect) built a large pond for them with an observation deck. One morning, he thought he would enjoy his coffee and watch the now large enough Caimans, which decided he looked like a sumptuous breakfast. Both chased him into the house. Obviously too risky to keep, they were donated to the San Diego Zoo. I'm not saying to run around with your hair on fire at the sight of a dangerous snake or alligator; if a non-venomous snake is in danger of getting run over at my place I pick them up and move them to safety, but I am saying recognize that venomous snakes and gators are capable of moving at lightning fast speeds compared to you so don't brush them off with a complacent attitude. You may well regret it someday, and if it is your child or somebody else's, you must bear at least part of the responsibility if you were a purveyor of bravado. If it is your arm or leg that is bitten, keep the meat cleaver handy and just whack it off like they do on "The Walking Dead" and keep going until it happens the next time! Don't sweat the small stuff!

 

[jhogan2424]

Different people growing up in different areas have different experiences. What Red61224 is saying is that their family is aware of and takes precautions as second nature and do not need to actively over concern themselves with the presence of such things. Just as a big city family may not be too concerned about driving on a 10 lane freeway as it would be second nature. What is easy and second nature to a farmer won’t necessarily compare to what is easy and second nature to a Wall Street investor. Trust me, southern folk know how to handle snakes and critters.

 

[Crissa]

I like snakes btw. No fear, just respect. Any water snake concerns me more. They swim faster than I do.

This is why you don't swim with them.

-Crissa

 

[John K]

This is why you don't swim with them.

-Crissa

I scuba, I have been around a couple sea snakes before. They ignored me.
Tangent, I was in Maui another time and was threatened with a 50k fine if I try to interact with the green sea turtles. I chilled at a respectable distance.

Later in the dive, I look up to see a young green sea turtle, size of a frisbee. He was at the surface, I was at 50 feet. He swam down to greet me and I swear, knew the law that I could not tough him as he swam within inches of my face and circled my head. He was obviously playing but I could not respond, that fine is scary.

moral of story, young wild animals are fearsome.

 

[Red61224]

Funny case story on the "no shoulders". Did you see the episode of Naked and Afraid where this couple had to set up camp on a tiny dry spot in a swamp, just a few inches above the waterline, the foraging for food part was easy, they had water moccasins frequenting the area so they had plenty of food and were not hurting for nourishment at all, you just had to watch where you stepped. What some people may have seen as a curse they turned it around and got fat off the snakes, they had plenty of water around and even "found" a small pot in which they could boil the water. Grew up wading in the swamps, sleeping in a hammock above the water, you just learn to keep an eye out for "undocumented visitors" to your camp. and often just scoot sneaky snake away to play somewhere else, he's just looking for food so don't leave anything out that has any faint scent of fish.

I mentioned the age of the mocs for a reason, they are more agile and present more of a concern than the older, fatter, and slower generation so you don't get complacent in their backyard or you may pay the tax. I'd rather take a walk thru my property at night barefoot than walk on a sidewalk in Portland at night.

Leave you with a treat. Did you know gators are cannibals and eat other's young and it is sometimes their own downfall? I can call them in close if need be, they are suckers for a grunt call. Learned it at an early age and it has often put food on the table and hides in the salt.

Oh, and junior is 32 now and has survived quite well with many adventures with dad, why once in the Okefenokee on a kayaking expedition we counted over 45 lizards one beautiful spring morning.

 

[happy intruder]

Another nope.

I like snakes btw. No fear, just respect. Any water snake concerns me more. They swim faster than I do.

nope?

 

[John K]

nope?

No to cozying up to baby water moccasins.

 

[drscot]

young water moccasins are deadly.....havn't used their venom so it is very concentrated

It isn't so much a matter of them having not used it, but because as "babies" they have a very limited volume, therefore, as you said, it is highly concentrated. They can only inject a small volume, so nature concentrates it so their small volume is sufficient to kill their prey.
When I was in the 8th grade, two of my friends and I went snake hunting in Palos Verdes California (lots of space then). We encountered a couple of baby rattlers. Being the budding herpetologists that we were, we thought nothing of catching them and putting them in pillow cases to take home. Truth be known, we did a great rendition of the Keystone Kops! Mike found the first one. He wore a pair of leather gloves that he just knew were impervious to the bites. He picked up a stick from off the ground and pinned its head down and picked it right up. No sweat! Then he took one of his gloves off and let the snake go just enough to bite the glove. It saturated it with venom. Mike turned every shade of pale in the book! There he stood with a deadly baby rattler in one hand and a saturated "protective" glove in the other, blubbering something unintelligible resembling something like "MAMA!!! HELP!!!!" In the meantime, we left Mike to his own devices. We found another one. My friend Clark was one of these "Me first!" guys. Having lost his homemade snake stick, he grabbed mine from me. He caught the rattler alright with the noose and told me to hold the pillow case while he put it inside. Problem was that he grabbed it about 1/3 the way down the body from the head and it was thrashing around and the pillowcase wasn't big enough to keep from getting bit. I said, "No, Clark, you hold the pillow case and I'll put it in!" We went back and forth till we realized neither of us were dumb enough to get bitten that day! So we had to figure out how to rid ourselves of the snake without getting bitten or hurting the snake. In the meantime, Mike was still standing there holding 'his' snake and pale as a sheet and sweating profusely at the same time. I never saw anything like it. What was worse (I think), is he was standing there with his legs crossed! He had to go to the bathroom! If he did it himself, he might have gotten bitten where NOBODY wants to get bitten! He shyly asked for one of us to help him, and immediately we were both wrestling our snake stick and snake around like we had an Anaconda on the end of it. "Sorry Mike! You're on your own!" Now he was dancing too! We were a sight! Should have been videoed!
So Mike was on his own (we were NEVER going to help him with THAT!). He finally remembered an episode from Abbott and Costello! The ol' wind up pitch, and that's exactly what he did. I told Clark "we better get far away from him!" "Why?" Clark asked. "Because I don't trust him to let loose of that thing at just the right moment and he might sling it back around yours or my necks!" "Good idea!" We did, we ran, leaving our snake in the noose on the ground. Mike was successful, leaving us to figure out what to do with ours. Now I had to go to the bathroom, and Clark started laughing at me! It occurred to me that I could hand him the snake stick and walk off, but I'm the nice guy. But he wasn't. He walked off leaving me with the snake and stick! So I decided just to put it on the ground and loosen the noose and run like hell before it thought to 'run' up the stick and bite me. So we caught two baby rattlers that day and lost two homemade snake sticks and came home with two empty pillow cases (stolen from Clarks mother) realizing we'd have probably gotten bit through them on our bicycles. If my Aunt Betty Ann had been there she'd have made a quick work out of both of them.

 

[John K]

Naked and afraid premise never caught. I enjoy survival but my crotch and feet must be protected.

 

[happy intruder]

No to cozying up to baby water moccasins.

got it......I grew up in the south and had copperheads, water Mocs and a few rattlesnakes......I hate'em all.....I kept checking out the book "all about snakes" from the library just to see them......the copperhead is beautiful from far away because of its colors, but it is nasty and very mean looking up close

 

[happy intruder]

It isn't so much a matter of them having not used it, but because as "babies" they have a very limited volume, therefore, as you said, it is highly concentrated. They can only inject a small volume, so nature concentrates it so their small volume is sufficient to kill their prey.
When I was in the 8th grade, two of my friends and I went snake hunting in Palos Verdes California (lots of space then). We encountered a couple of baby rattlers. Being the budding herpetologists that we were, we thought nothing of catching them and putting them in pillow cases to take home. Truth be known, we did a great rendition of the Keystone Kops! Mike found the first one. He wore a pair of leather gloves that he just knew were impervious to the bites. He picked up a stick from off the ground and pinned its head down and picked it right up. No sweat! Then he took one of his gloves off and let the snake go just enough to bite the glove. It saturated it with venom. Mike turned every shade of pale in the book! There he stood with a deadly baby rattler in one hand and a saturated "protective" glove in the other, blubbering something unintelligible resembling something like "MAMA!!! HELP!!!!" In the meantime, we left Mike to his own devices. We found another one. My friend Clark was one of these "Me first!" guys. Having lost his homemade snake stick, he grabbed mine from me. He caught the rattler alright with the noose and told me to hold the pillow case while he put it inside. Problem was that he grabbed it about 1/3 the way down the body from the head and it was thrashing around and the pillowcase wasn't big enough to keep from getting bit. I said, "No, Clark, you hold the pillow case and I'll put it in!" We went back and forth till we realized neither of us were dumb enough to get bitten that day! So we had to figure out how to rid ourselves of the snake without getting bitten or hurting the snake. In the meantime, Mike was still standing there holding 'his' snake and pale as a sheet and sweating profusely at the same time. I never saw anything like it. What was worse (I think), is he was standing there with his legs crossed! He had to go to the bathroom! If he did it himself, he might have gotten bitten where NOBODY wants to get bitten! He shyly asked for one of us to help him, and immediately we were both wrestling our snake stick and snake around like we had an Anaconda on the end of it. "Sorry Mike! You're on your own!" Now he was dancing too! We were a sight! Should have been videoed!
So Mike was on his own (we were NEVER going to help him with THAT!). He finally remembered an episode from Abbott and Costello! The ol' wind up pitch, and that's exactly what he did. I told Clark "we better get far away from him!" "Why?" Clark asked. "Because I don't trust him to let loose of that thing at just the right moment and he might sling it back around yours or my necks!" "Good idea!" We did, we ran, leaving our snake in the noose on the ground. Mike was successful, leaving us to figure out what to do with ours. Now I had to go to the bathroom, and Clark started laughing at me! It occurred to me that I could hand him the snake stick and walk off, but I'm the nice guy. But he wasn't. He walked off leaving me with the snake and stick! So I decided just to put it on the ground and loosen the noose and run like hell before it thought to 'run' up the stick and bite me. So we caught two baby rattlers that day and lost two homemade snake sticks and came home with two empty pillow cases (stolen from Clarks mother) realizing we'd have probably gotten bit through them on our bicycles. If my Aunt Betty Ann had been there she'd have made a quick work out of both of them.

thats funny as hell....great story.....

 

[Red61224]

Naked and afraid premise never caught. I enjoy survival but my crotch and feet must be protected.

And one of the participants of the episode complained of mosquito bites just as you mentioned and she would have been pleased to find floating in the swamp a pair tighty-whities, not for modesty but for protection. Ouch.

 

[drscot]

nope?

nope?

Another nope.

I like snakes btw. No fear, just respect. Any water snake concerns me more. They swim faster than I do.

Not all snakes in the water are bad, FYI. Watch how they swim. If their head is down in the water, you are fine. If they swim with the head and neck up out of the water, they are the venomous Cottonmouth or Water Moccasin and to be avoided.......... or is that the other way around? LOL I had one in my garage one night. My girlfriend said "there's a snake in the garage "nonchalantly" (you know how that goes). So it was my job to desnakify the garage. I found it behind some fertilizer jugs. I started to grab it but noticed it had a real skinny tail and a fat, muddy brown, reticulated body. I looked closer, not quite nose to nose but not far. It had this cream colored stripe on it's jaw. I had only seen black Cottonmouths, never one like this, so I thought I'd take another approach to grabbing it. I got a broom and moved the jugs. It shot within inches past my bare leg and hid in more jugs. Then I smelled a skunk. I thought great! I'm going to get bitten by a snake that I'm not sure what it is, then get sprayed by skunk and get bitten as it runs off and have to get rabies shots! Well I finally shooed the snake out. The county agent identified it as another variant of the Cottonmouth. The skunk was nowhere to be found. I knew some snakes can put off a noxious odor, and this was concentrated where the snake had been. It is also said to be the last warning before a strike! So let that be a warning to you: if you are feeling to be in a nonchalant mood, don't go around sniffing stinky snakes! Consider yourself warned!

 

[John K]

This is why, 4+ star hotels are better. Plus, 99.9% bear free.

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