Make Cyber Truck orders non-refundable

[Ogre]

I actually hope you're right, because it would mean the undeserved PHEV tax credits would be mitigated a lot by people preferring BEVs instead. Problem is, legacy hasn't truly engaged their focus or what it really takes to scale BEV production like Tesla has, so while many might refuse to buy PHEVs, the most available choices of BEVs (tax credit eligible) at scale will be Teslas, and the waiting lists could get long. So maybe a few will resort to buying PHEVs for the interim, or maybe not.

But I'll admit I do not like 'tax credits' in general because it is really the government being too involved in people's personal lives, by actually providing a portion of each person's car purchase ('partial government issue', as it were). Anytime the government disburses something to the people widespread and long term, they do not do it in a vacuum and will always expect to leverage something from the people in return. Taxpayers still pay for it, being part of the budget which the government always overspends from, which ultimately prompts them to raise citizens taxes even more a little down the 'road'. What goes around comes around and everyone still has to pay for it.

I agree with Elon's take on tax incentives not being necessary. If he is 'secure' in Tesla's ability to sustain cash flow and business without tax credits, then I am also 'secure' in my own ability to purchase compelling Tesla products without the government getting their hands into it either. Often when the government 'gets their hand' into something, they rarely release it, but often increase their grasp instead.

Simple fiscal responsibility has been beyond our government's comprehension for decades now, so I don't want the government involved in my financial purchase decisions, any more than absolutely necessary.

- ÆCIII

I’m not big on the tax credits either.

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[Crissa]

Which Tesla does that describe? They're likely to get the full credit and are repeatedly the most American of cars...

Which any car does that describe?

Whose pockets does it pad? Be specific.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

The Model Y is an SUV.

Automakers spent years redefining what an SUV is so they could get away with crappy fuel economy cars so now damned near anything fits under that envelope.

Likewise the LXRQ, the Blazer, the Mustang Mach E, etc etc. everything is an SUV now. (I kid, the Model 3 is not).

 

[Ogre]

Was frustrating for me, last time I shopped cars, I wanted something with good fuel economy but off-road capable. There were a bunch like the RAV4, but they all had crappy fuel economy. Wound up with a Subaru Outback because it was the only car that met my needs and got better than 30 MPG.

Most of the “SUVs” were smaller, less capable, and got 24MPG or worse (this was 10 years ago). Hugely frustrating.

I just wish the Model Y had come with an off-road option with tires capable of bouncing down gravel roads.

 

[Jhodgesatmb]

Was frustrating for me, last time I shopped cars, I wanted something with good fuel economy but off-road capable. There were a bunch like the RAV4, but they all had crappy fuel economy. Wound up with a Subaru Outback because it was the only car that met my needs and got better than 30 MPG.

Most of the “SUVs” were smaller, less capable, and got 24MPG or worse (this was 10 years ago). Hugely frustrating.

I just wish the Model Y had come with an off-road option with tires capable of bouncing down gravel roads.

...and more ground clearance (maybe adjustable suspension)!

 

[Ogre]

...and more ground clearance (maybe adjustable suspension)!

If Tesla offered adjustable air suspension on the Model Y with off road tires it would be legit for my use. For the moment anyhow, range is more important than off roading capacity so sticking with stock setup.

Before I realized how big a hit the bikes on the back were, I seriously considered setting up my Model Y for off roading. I’d take the likely ~10% hit to range. But the 10% for off road plus 25% for the bikes would be horrible.

 

[happy intruder]

Correct, we will see about the C4 and where it falls on the price.

dont worry......per Elon, the cyber truck specifications and price will be different......but it will be a "fine" truck

 

[TyPope]

But as a shareholder, I appreciate the interest free loan the "riff-raff" are giving Tesla.

... but refundable deposits are held in an account Tesla can't use so it's not a loan. However, if they were non-refundable, you'd be right. Of course, from my point of view, I don't have that $100 that I gave them oh so long ago so it SEEMS like I gave them a loan.

 

[happy intruder]

If your evidence is that Tesla lowered the price by 1/4 the credits six months before the phase-out, then again three years after the phase out - at the same point when they were able to finally increase their production and reap some economies of scale...

Those price changes don't seem particularly connected to the tax credit.

-Crissa

well, if it walks like. duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck.........it must be a duck......but his links do seem to be in line with his statements

 

[Ogre]

... but refundable deposits are held in an account Tesla can't use so it's not a loan. However, if they were non-refundable, you'd be right. Of course, from my point of view, I don't have that $100 that I gave them oh so long ago so it SEEMS like I gave them a loan.

I’m pretty sure Tesla didn’t put this money in an escrow account and can use it for whatever they want. There is a liability on their balance sheet, but since most will buy the truck thats a non issue.

But this is small money for Tesla.

 

[tidmutt]

That's for the used vehicle credit next year. It's $150K/300K for the new vehicle credit. And the date is delivery, not payment, anyhow.

-Crissa

The interesting thing is that the income limit is the same everywhere. $150K is a lot of money in some places in Alabama but not so much in NYC, Mountain View or even Miami.

So when someone says, I earn $150K and lots of people react with an almost inverted snobbery, I wonder how many of them are in places like Alabama. No offense to Alabamians.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the income limits should be higher but I do feel like there are some odd sentiments expressed whenever this topic comes up.

 

[happy intruder]

I’m pretty sure Tesla didn’t put this money in an escrow account and can use it for whatever they want. There is a liability on their balance sheet, but since most will buy the truck thats a non issue.

But this is small money for Tesla.

yea but 120M dollars is a lot of money...thats not chump change

 

[Ogre]

yea but 120M dollars is a lot of money...thats not chump change

Tesla’s earnings last quarter were $2.3 billion.

I guess 5% of 1 quarter’s earnings? The numbers get less relevant over time. I suppose that’s appropriate.

For perspective, Tesla has $50+ billion worth of Cybertruck reservations sitting in their hopper.

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