More FUD from CNBC

[HaulingAss]

Well, that $199 comes with lane change and navigate on Autopilot so... If you're doing a long road-trip, it can help check your corners for you.

-Crissa

This is true but even Elon admitted a couple of months or so ago that the subscription price doesn't make a lot of sense for most people at this point in time.

I'm quite conservative with spending money by increasing my monthly expenses with subscriptions but am much more likely to invest money by buying into the future. The only way I would subscribe to FSD right now is if it conferred a future benefit (like locked in the subscription price for the life of the car). Even then, I would be more likely to invest in the purchase. So, I would have no problem paying (for example) the $12k for FSD on a new car purchase today because I know it will be worth a lot more when it's able to drive unassisted. There is the risk that the development takes so long the car is nearing its end of life but that's a risk I'm willing to take because I judge it as relatively low risk and the reward in the case FSD happens in the next 2-3 years is quite large. Resale value on cars with FSD will sky-rocket when the FSD edge cases are solved adequately.

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[Sirfun]

Well, that $199 comes with lane change and navigate on Autopilot so... If you're doing a long road-trip, it can help check your corners for you.

-Crissa

I would probably fork out the cash, to test it out for a month while we take one of our long road trips. Just to see how it would do as a novelty. But I tell my kids all the time. Don't waste your money on things you don't need. I don't need my corners checked, but I could see some convenience in navigating to superchargers and stops along the way. LOL, it could really help my wife when getting back to the freeway. Her sense of direction is pretty much non-functional, I constantly have to tell her which way we're going to get back on our way, after pit stops.

 

[Crissa]

You do need your corners checked. Safety is no joke. So is being able to arrive somewhere fresh, and to be able to keep your head on a swivel rather than stuck counting the seconds between cars (I know Autopilot does this for free) and exit signs.

But being able to buy it for a month for the same price as a couple nice dinners should make it attractive to the summer-vacation set.

-Crissa

 

[EV Rob]

Here's more: Seems like media is trying to take out Tesla.

Tesla "Phantom Braking" Under NHTSA Investigation (msn.com)

Every car I've driven with adaptive cruise control has the occasional unexpected breaking. If a car in a neighboring lane drifts too close, or starts a lane change in front of you and changes their minds and goes back, the system responds and starts to brake.

I've actually been amazed at how good they are - it's a hard technical problem to follow the car in the lane in front of you and not the ones in adjacent lanes. If you want adaptive cruise control to be safe, it has to be tuned to react a bit early. It's going to be different than a human, but likely better.

I'll bet unexpected adaptive cruise braking happens a lot less than a human driver gets distracted and fails to brake. But there is no way to collect data on the latter. The bigger issue would be failure to respond.

 

[Crissa]

You'd have to know how often humans brake for no apparent reason as a base line. The AI just doing what a human is supposed to do, look for patterns and brake accordingly.

How often do you see something from the corner of your eye, or an unexpected reflection off of a building or other vehicle, and think you saw a bicycle or pedestrian looming at the edge of the road? And how many times was it true?

That's all phantom braking is: a slow down for some perceived danger that the passengers in the car didn't think or didn't perceive as dangerous.

Many times (tho not all, or even maybe most) I can look over video of phantom braking and find a legitimate reason for the car to slow. Maybe there was a crest of a hill, breaking line of sight. A shadow moved on the shoulder, creating a legitimate blind spot. Some idiot had their reverse lights on while they drove down the road... These are all actual things I've experienced in person. The 'crest of hill' is the most common I've seen in YouTube videos... the brake lights have happened to me twice!

Radar cruise control is even more difficult to diagnose. That's because what's radar reflective isn't obvious to humans, who don't perceive in that spectrum. Things like over head signs, bridges, walls, and traffic will create illusions, just like a mirage, as the radar bounces around, through, and back from them.

-Crissa

 

[ÆCIII]

MSM have allowed themselves to get to a very bad place, by not assuring their revenue is from ethical sustainable sources.

Instead they've taken advertising money from anyone, regardless of them having a toxic or degenerative business model like the legacy auto companies have.

Ultimately the MSM is a puppet of their sponsors, and they stand to lose $billions each year if legacy auto companies go under or suffer massive drops in sales. So it's obvious why they are starting to make 'hit pieces' against Tesla.

The MSM can never be objective about what's good for the people or the environment. MSM and Legacy Auto both - Need To Fail. We'll all be much better off.

But if a major legacy auto company were to announce they're severing all advertising with MSM networks to save funds to help stay afloat, that would be a step in the right direction. In that scenario MSM deserves to fail much more than legacy auto does. But if they both insist on degenerative greed together ignoring the people, they both deserve to fail good riddance.

 

[Ratso]

Even with its faults I trust FUD over every idiot on the road texting, drugged, or drunk driving.

 

[cybguy]

They find the worse cases. What about some best cases?

Youtube is full of low complexity, nearly empty streets, best case scenarios of FSD. While this driver was a drama queen, this does give a view of just how far off the Robotaxi market (mainly dense urban areas) is from reality. Not unexpectedly FSD in San Francisco also has a long ways to go. As an investor and someone with an early Cybertruck reservation I want to know if Tesla's FSD has exceeded the expected timeline of autonomous driving by 2028-2030. It clearly is still on that expected track. Obviously Robotaxis will take a couple years past autonomous driving arriving at the end of this decade. Not everyone wants to pay for autonomous driving development when it likely won't be fully functional for the majority of time you own your Tesla.

 

[Crissa]

FSD handles San Francisco fine. Remember, FSD is not trying to avoid situations it's bad at - which is what any reasonable driver should do.

-Crissa

 

[nmeabrian]

They find the worse cases. What about some best cases?

What do you expect it is beta for god sake WTF

 

[Cybertruck Hawaii]

Tesla's FSD is going to shine a bright light on social driving and traffic laws:

Everybody breaks the law, all the time. No one goes exactly the speed limit, and would be charged with "obstructing traffic" for driving below the limit. No one comes to a complete stop 100% of the time, nor uses their blinker without fail.

The laws are written for people, not robots. If the robot cars follow the letter of the law, they will drive like my grandmother. Human drivers will be outraged. A driver is responsible for "knowing the law" even when the street markings are faded, the traffic light is broken, and the signs are gone. What's a robot to do?

It's illegal to cross the double-yellow line, or drive on the shoulder. If someone is double-parked, you're supposed to wait, not go around. At best, this will induce violence in the drivers further back.

We either need to allow for some "fuzzyness" in traffic law, or accept that robots are going to drive like pedantic assholes. Maybe we need to have robotic cops, too. ? I drive by the book. That’s why nobody wants to follow me. I’m just too slow driving at the posted speed limit sign. I’ve been pulled over by my many cops each year wondering why I am driving so slow. They think that I am drunk.

 

[Tedacules]

A few people have died already at the hands of FSD look it up.

 

[Crissa]

A few people have died already at the hands of FSD look it up.

The Bowling Green Massacre?

-Crissa

 

[Bill906]

 

[firsttruck]

A few people have died already at the hands of FSD look it up.

There have been NO deaths and NO injuries from FSD BETA.

There have been a very few deaths from drivers who improperly used Tesla Autopilot cruise control.

No different from cruise control in ICE cars over last 45 years. There has been some deaths and some injuries by idiots who improperly used the feature.

There have even been cases of real cruise control mal-functions over the 45 year history of the feature.

We did not completely stop use of cruise control feature just because of a few accidents.

Below are some reports that occurred before Tesla Autopilot was even born.

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Turn off your idle cruise control
November 16, 2012
https://www.kansas.com/cars/article1103046.html

.....
Tom: Lana, you’re right that leaving the main cruise control switch in the “on” position will not harm the cruise-control system in any way.

Ray: But your husband’s right that the main on/off switch is there for your safety. It’s actually pretty easy to hit the Set and Resume buttons by accident, because those controls are deliberately placed within very easy reach of your fingers — like on the steering wheel or the stalk.

Tom: And if you’re making a turn, or trying to switch on your wipers or blinkers, or who knows what, it’s not very hard to hit one of the cruise-control buttons inadvertently.
How do we know? We’ve done it.

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Phoenix official killed in car 'surfing' crash
The city of Phoenix is mourning the loss of its chief financial officer, after Scottsdale police identified the victim of an unusual car crash Wednesday as 55-year-old Kevin Keogh.
Keogh climbed onto the roof of his moving car after setting the cruise control around 50 miles an hour Wednesday afternoon. He then "surfed" on the top of his car on Camelback Road before falling to his death. The car eventually came to stop when it rear-ended a car waiting for a traffic light at 68th Street. No one was hurt in the final crash.
Updated Dec 9, 2004
https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/2004/12/06/daily43.html

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Bradfield teenage driver 'unfamiliar' with fatal crash car
A TEENAGER from Bradfield who died after his car smashed into a bridge was unfamiliar with his vehicle's cruise control, an inquest heard.
Gazette-news.co.uk
Nov 24, 2011
| Gazette https://www.gazette-news.co.uk › news › 9384044.brad... Nov 24, 2011 —

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Coroner lays blame in deadly Rougemont crash in which three people were killed
Published Tuesday, May 15, 2012
https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/coroner-lays-blame-in-deadly-rougemont-crash-1.810202

.....
* driver was using cruise control, which diminishes the amount of attention needed to keep a car on the road.
* driver was fatigued and not paying attention.

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Cruise control can cause accidents if you use it improperly.
Date Mar 27, 2009
By State Fund is the largest provider of workers’ compensation insurance in California.
https://content.statefundca.com/safety/safetymeeting/SafetyMeetingArticle.aspx?ArticleID=609

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Driver recalls freeway cruise control horror
A Melbourne man has described how he was trapped in his four-wheel drive, hurtling down a freeway with the cruise control stuck on.
Ford recalled the 2002 Ford Explorer in October due to a problem with its cruise control. updated 15 Dec 2009
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-12-16/driver-recalls-freeway-cruise-control-horror/1180688

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Driver Wins Cruise-Control Suit As GM Pays Victim $1.7 Million
Charles Cecil has finally been vindicated. For the past seven years, the retired cookware executive from Tryon, N.C., has insisted that he wasn't responsible for an accident that left a close friend with a severed leg and knocked his own wife unconscious.
By Corey Takahashi, Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal
Sept. 8, 1997
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB873669356483197500

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** Using cruise control during certain wet road conditions can result in accident.

Hydroplaning Basics: Why it Occurs and How You Can Avoid it
https://www.safemotorist.com/articles/hydroplaning-basics/

When does Hydroplaning Occur? Hydroplaning can occur on any wet road surface, however, the first 10 minutes of a light rain can be the most dangerous. When light rain mixes with oil residue on the road surface, it creates slippery conditions that can cause vehicles, especially those traveling speeds in excess of 35 mph, to hydroplane. This can be a deadly combination for the driver and surrounding motorists. The chance of being involved in a motor vehicle accident increases during poor weather conditions such as fog, rain, ice and snow. However, it isn't necessarily the pounding rain and blinding snow that are the most dangerous; it is the slick conditions that drivers aren't prepared for.

How do I Avoid Hydroplaning? The following are important tips to avoid hydroplaning:
.....
* Slow down when roads are wet: the faster you drive, the harder it is for your tires to scatter the water
* Stay away from puddles and standing water
* Avoid driving in outer lanes where water tends to accumulate
* Turn off cruise control

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Recall Alert: 485,000 2001-04 Ford Escapes 959065584-1425510347851
Ford is recalling nearly 485,000 2001-04 Ford Escape SUVs equipped with the 3.0-liter V-6 and cruise control, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, as reported by Autoblog.
By Colin Bird July 26, 2012
https://www.cars.com/articles/recall-alert-485000-2001-04-ford-escapes-1420663109949/

.....
On Escapes manufactured from Oct. 22, 1999, through Jan. 23, 2004, there isn’t enough clearance between the engine cover and the cruise control cable connector; as a result, the throttle could stick when the pedal is nearly or fully depressed.

A stuck throttle could lead to uncontrollable high speeds and possibly a serious or fatal crash, NHTSA says. The issue could happen regardless of whether the cruise control is used or not.

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