More Tesla price cuts === cheaper Cybertruck (6 oct)

[HaulingAss]

Defensive much?
You got that shut down with your continual Shitposting.
What you afraid of?
If you’re not here for a discussion why are you here?

I don’t want confirmation bias I want honest steelmaning of the proposal. Which I will never get from @cvalue13, @Crissa, @Ogre @HaulingAss because they are threatened at the thought of not being able to profitably sell their multiple reservations.

If this proposal wasn’t so threatening why the vehement opposition, derision, vitriol and logical fallacy?

So threatened by a hypothetical. Guilty conscience me thinks.

I have zero intention of selling my reservations for even a dollar of profit and your claim that I'm threatened by not being able to sell at a profit has ZERO basis in reality - you just made it up out of thin air. Without a shred of evidence.

Those are some delusional thoughts you are having there and it's tragically sad that you can't see how far you have gone off the deep end. It's all in your head.

Sponsored

 

[Deleted member 3316]

Excellent Ogre! These are honest questions.
Thank you for taking the opportunity to redeem yourself.

What percentage of trucks will be scalped?

That percentage is a function of the price set by Tesla. If you are interested in a hypothetical example I can provide you with one if that would help you.
We are working from a known unknown though, the parameters are infinitely debatable.
We don’t know what the price is and we don’t know what the demand is at that price. So we cannot know the potential for scalping. We do know that it is a product of price/demand/supply.

How many trucks do you suggest should be inserted in the queue in front of me?

Given you understand that some of the reservations ahead of you are likely to be scalped using the current market mechanism. I am suggesting less than the current scenario.

How many scalpers will that eliminate?

How long is a piece of string? I posit it will remove most because the only way to get a vehicle outside of a resale restricted contract it at market clearing price.

But if I am #1500 in the queue (I am not but some on this forum are) then how do those people not get bumped backwards?

If you can accept the caveats above around known unknowns I can provide a hypothetical example.

Are you willing to continue honestly?

 

[Deleted member 3316]

I have zero intention of selling my reservations for even a dollar of profit and your claim that I'm threatened by not being able to sell at a profit has ZERO basis in reality - you just made it up out of thin air. Without a shred of evidence.

Those are some delusional thoughts you are having there and it's tragically sad that you can't see how far you have gone off the deep end. It's all in your head.

Great, well done, that’s an honest starting point.

If you have no intention of selling your reservation, then what is your main concern with the market strategy I’m suggesting?

Personal liberty?
Queue jumpers?

I don’t think you have actually looked past your horror at the mechanism for Tesla to assume more profit from people not in the queue.

 

[cvalue13]

@***** IS RIGHT!

 

[Gurule92]

Starting to regret making this thread... didn't even get featured in the email lol

 

[Ogre]

Are you willing to continue honestly?

You didn’t answer anything.

 

[HaulingAss]

Great, well done, that’s an honest starting point.

If you have no intention of selling your reservation, then what is your main concern with the market strategy I’m suggesting?

Personal liberty?
Queue jumpers?

I don’t think you have actually looked past your horror at the mechanism for Tesla to assume more profit from people not in the queue.

My main concern with the strategy your suggesting?

Not only will it never happen, as a Tesla shareholder I don't think the optics are good. I want Tesla to maximize long-term shareholder profits making the best vehicles for the lowest prices, not trying to get in on the scalping based on the temporary demand that has existed during the ramp of every single Tesla model since they released the first Roadster.

I want Tesla to carry on, using the same formula that is tried and true, and has worked so well to get them to where they are today, not chasing after swome temporary fool's gold, or getting distracted by a problem that is not a real problem.

But I don't expect you to understand because this has been explained to you before and it did no good.

 

[Crissa]

Forgive me for asking, but is there a “new math” version of economic theory which lacks math?

Its been a few years since I took economics, but when I went through school the theories had formulas.

Theories don't always have numbers to slot into the variables. That's one reason we call them variables. But they do have variables, whether written in mathematical formula or not.

I still don't understand how you sell trucks at the scalpers' prices and still assume that the reservation holders won't still be tempted try to sell their positions. Scalpers are already violating the rules.

-Crissa

 

[TBONO]

Why is everybody so concerned about scalpers? Maybe I’m not getting it ..
It only affects for anyone not in line and it’s got to be a super small percentage of trucks sold so who cares?
To be honest, even though the crazy prices, some scalpers can pull on limited vehicles and people think they’re slime balls, They’re actually providing service cause buyers for those items are happy to get it and happy to pay the premium. Isn’t everyone a Winner? I’m not sure who’s the loser is.

For the record, I do not fall into either camp. I’ve never scalped, nor would want to buy from one.

 

[cvalue13]

Why is one body so concerned about scalpers?

FIFY

limited vehicles and people think they’re slime balls, They’re actually providing service cause buyers for those items are happy to get it and happy to pay the premium. Isn’t everyone a Winner?

you don’t get it, man!

you see, when Tesla sets its MSRP fully aware of demand issues, Tesla us blind to the fact that a few scalpers will capitalize on the delta between MSRP and what people are willing to pay! It’s stealing money from Tesla, right from under Tesla’s unaware noses!

 

[Crissa]

For the record, I do not fall into either camp. I’ve never scalped, nor would want to buy from one.

...and the way Tesla works discourages repeat offenders, which is the bigger problem from scalpers.

-Crissa

 

[TBONO]

FIFY




you don’t get it, man!

you see, when Tesla sets its MSRP fully aware of demand issues, Tesla us blind to the fact that a few scalpers will capitalize on the delta between MSRP and what people are willing to pay! It’s stealing money from Tesla, right from under Tesla’s unaware noses!

First of all pardon the typo on my voice to text feature
now back to the point though :
yes, maybe I don’t get it (which I humbly stated, hoping someone to have some insight)
my original question is not being answered : why does Tesla care about a few scalpers ?
what percentage of the initial trucks are really scalpers it can’t be more than one out of 100 and even then who cares? it’s still satisfying a unique market Which really does not have any negative impact on Tesla margins or volumes.

By the way, regarding the comment on Tesla’s unaware stealing from under their noses… I am pretty sure Tesla is more than aware
Many from Tesla are on this forum

My point is what percentage do you really think is impacting sales? Do you really think it move the needle for Tesla? Do you really think it’s more than a couple percentage points of sales? That’s my question I don’t think it is so who cares?

It almost sounds like conspiracy theory

I do see the issue where companies like ford get pissed off when their dealers are marking up the price and someone’s going to a Ford brand and spending 20 grand 50 grand over MSRP because that’s hurting the brand as they’re buying from. Technically the brand itself


- scalpers don’t apply to this scenario

 

[cvalue13]

First of all pardon the typo on my voice to text feature
now back to the point though

sorry - I hoped the “ “ would sufficiently indicate my deep sarcasm

Poe’s law invoked

 

[Crissa]

my original question is not being answered : why does Tesla care about a few scalpers ?

Because scalpers aren't customers, and make other customers unhappy. And scalpers' customers are often difficult to integrate. They require more overhead to transfer

what percentage of the initial trucks are really scalpers it can’t be more than one out of 100 and even then who cares?

No one really knows. The bigger problem is that if scalpers are successful, they will try again, until all preorders are scalpers... and scalpers are more likely to walk off if the market changes. Which again, costs Tesla money.

My point is what percentage do you really think is impacting sales?

Tesla had a large number of cancellations last year due to speculators getting preorders and then walking off.

They've also had lots delaying picking up their vehicles which also costs Tesla money.

And it cost Tesla public image to cancel those orders. "Tesla cancels orders! Are they in trouble? Are they treating their customers badly?"

So it can snowball into a problem quickly.

-Crissa

 

[TBONO]

Because scalpers aren't customers, and make other customers unhappy. And scalpers' customers are often difficult to integrate. They require more overhead to transfer


No one really knows. The bigger problem is that if scalpers are successful, they will try again, until all preorders are scalpers... and scalpers are more likely to walk off if the market changes. Which again, costs Tesla money.


Tesla had a large number of cancellations last year due to speculators getting preorders and then walking off.

They've also had lots delaying picking up their vehicles which also costs Tesla money.

And it cost Tesla public image to cancel those orders. "Tesla cancels orders! Are they in trouble? Are they treating their customers badly?"

So it can snowball into a problem quickly.

-Crissa

This all seems still a bit loosey-goosey, and under the assumption that scalpers make up a material percentage of the orders. That’s why I am curious if there’s any data; my guess is it scalpers actually make up an extremely small percentage of the orders maybe even 1% at the onset. Don’t know about the argument that someone who bought from the scalpers are more difficult Tesla customers, not sure what that means unless there’s a problem with a car.

Is there any evidence of Tesla cares about scalpers? If so, it means they see it as a material part of the business.

Other brands, Ford Dodge Chevrolet/Corvette are more concerned about their branded dealers, marking up the product for brand reasons.

Has Tesla ever enacted can’t resell without a penalty type clauses?

Sponsored