Musk: Tungsten Carbide Coating may be offered to scratch-proof Cybertruck. Overkill or oustanding?

[Crissa]

We actually have third-party analysis of samples from Starship, since several have broken up. We know the chemical composition, we know it's changed over time, and that they've changed the thickness for differing pieces.

But the exact details are a tightly held secret.

The panels on the Delorean aren't roll hardened, as we're told the SpaceX steel is, and the corrosion capabilities of the SpaceX steel have only gotten more impressive over time - and required more Chromium.

-Crissa

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[CyberSleuth]

Unknown formulation but we do know that the formulation was done post DeLorean. So to answer the question from @CyberSleuth directly, I can for certain say that yes, I know that there is certainly a difference between the stainless steel used in the CT vs the DeLorean.

Now, as for what exactly the differences are.... Currently that seems to be a tightly held secret on the CT side. I'm sure that with enough research one could determine what exactly the stainless steel is on the DeLorean. At least with some degree of certainty. I'm not sure Tesla (or more probably SpaceX) will ever willingly let the cat out of the bag as to what is being used on the CT.

I suppose Delorean never required a 9000 ton Gigapress, which in my view is our biggest indicator the CT's steel is a whole different animal. I'm no expert though, nor do I play one on TV. Anyone know what the standard press weight is for traditional vehicles?

 

[FutureBoy]

I suppose Delorean never required a 9000 ton Gigapress, which in my view is our biggest indicator the CT's steel is a whole different animal. I'm no expert though, nor do I play one on TV. Anyone know what the standard press weight is for traditional vehicles?

LOL. Till Tesla came along, no one was using a large press for automotive. Sandy Monro has complained about how he recommended it to legacy auto for years and they never wanted to do it. Then Tesla came along and started with 6k ton press. So far, that's what they use for their other vehicles. Then for the CT, they went to the 9k ton press even though no one thought it would be possible. And from what I've seen, there are some plans to do some even more involved presses coming.

 

[firsttruck]

I suppose Delorean never required a 9000 ton Gigapress, which in my view is our biggest indicator the CT's steel is a whole different animal. I'm no expert though, nor do I play one on TV. Anyone know what the standard press weight is for traditional vehicles?

The Giga press caster is used to make castings from aluminum alloy. Tesla uses for main front or main rear castings.

The Giga press caster is NOT used for stainless steel.

 

[CyberGus]

LOL. Till Tesla came along, no one was using a large press for automotive. Sandy Monro has complained about how he recommended it to legacy auto for years and they never wanted to do it. Then Tesla came along and started with 6k ton press. So far, that's what they use for their other vehicles. Then for the CT, they went to the 9k ton press even though no one thought it would be possible. And from what I've seen, there are some plans to do some even more involved presses coming.

A Gigapress doesn't "press" anything.

A casting machine should probably be called a "Gigacast". Although there is some pressing involved maybe? Buttons get pressed, for sure.

The DeLorean panels were stamped like traditional steel, but they're nowhere near 3mm.

 

[LDRHAWKE]

It coating is really being considered chromium carbide may be a better option over tungsten carbide from the corrosion standpoint.

 

[FutureBoy]

A Gigapress doesn't "press" anything.

A casting machine should probably be called a "Gigacast". Although there is some pressing involved maybe? Buttons get pressed, for sure.

The DeLorean panels were stamped like traditional steel, but they're nowhere near 3mm.

Yes, I agree that gigacast would probably be a better name.

The press part of the machine is that the form has to be held together while the molten aluminum gets squirted into it to be formed into the exact part that is being made. After the part cools enough to be solid, the form is opened and the part removed. But other than the power needed to move the big parts of the form, the real power is in 2 places: the ability to squirt enough molten metal into the large form fast enough to get a good part, and the ability to keep the parts of the form so tightly stuck together that none of the molten metal comes squirting out the seams. That is where it takes 9k tons of force. So yes, the machine is a huge casting robot. But the impressive part is the ability to press the form together with that much force.

Oh, and this machine is COMPLETELY different from the normal way car body parts are created where they use a "huge" press to form body panels out of thin sheets of metal. In that case there is a form also with a press that is pushing the form parts together. But what goes in the press is a sheet of flat metal. Once the press pushes the form together, that flat sheet of metal gets shaped into the exact shape that is needed for the part. This is very different from what Tesla is doing with their castings.

 

[CyberGus]

Yes, I agree that gigacast would probably be a better name.

The press part of the machine is that the form has to be held together while the molten aluminum gets squirted into it to be formed into the exact part that is being made. After the part cools enough to be solid, the form is opened and the part removed. But other than the power needed to move the big parts of the form, the real power is in 2 places: the ability to squirt enough molten metal into the large form fast enough to get a good part, and the ability to keep the parts of the form so tightly stuck together that none of the molten metal comes squirting out the seams. That is where it takes 9k tons of force. So yes, the machine is a huge casting robot. But the impressive part is the ability to press the form together with that much force.

How about... "GIGAFORCE"

 

[Crissa]

A Gigapress doesn't "press" anything.

A gigapress presses the casting die, which is its own thing. The more surface area, the more weight it needs to press to stay together to make the casting.

-Crissa

 

[CyberSleuth]

Yes, I agree that gigacast would probably be a better name.

The press part of the machine is that the form has to be held together while the molten aluminum gets squirted into it to be formed into the exact part that is being made. After the part cools enough to be solid, the form is opened and the part removed. But other than the power needed to move the big parts of the form, the real power is in 2 places: the ability to squirt enough molten metal into the large form fast enough to get a good part, and the ability to keep the parts of the form so tightly stuck together that none of the molten metal comes squirting out the seams. That is where it takes 9k tons of force. So yes, the machine is a huge casting robot. But the impressive part is the ability to press the form together with that much force.

Oh, and this machine is COMPLETELY different from the normal way car body parts are created where they use a "huge" press to form body panels out of thin sheets of metal. In that case there is a form also with a press that is pushing the form parts together. But what goes in the press is a sheet of flat metal. Once the press pushes the form together, that flat sheet of metal gets shaped into the exact shape that is needed for the part. This is very different from what Tesla is doing with their castings.

Thanks for explaining this. So the giga press (or gigacast) is only forming the aluminum components, but the higher force = higher quality parts.
Why didn't legacy automaker want to do it this way?

 

[Crissa]

Thanks for explaining this. So the giga press (or gigacast) is only forming the aluminum components, but the higher force = higher quality parts.
Why didn't legacy automaker want to do it this way?

Those machines are super-expensive. You have to commit to selling hundreds of thousands of the same model vehicle to make it pay off.

And these machines basically didn't exist because there was no customer for them.

-Crissa

 

[HaulingAss]

Thanks for explaining this. So the giga press (or gigacast) is only forming the aluminum components, but the higher force = higher quality parts.
Why didn't legacy automaker want to do it this way?

Tesla had to develop a new aluminum alloy to make the large castings feasible. That's because traditional castings need to be hardened using a thermal process in order for them to be strong enough to use for parts requiring a high stiffness and strength (like part of the chassis). And this hardening process deforms large castings that do not have a uniform shape. The parts come out of the hardening process warped which would be a real mess with large cast portions of the chassis.

Tesla's custom alloy is stiff and strong enough to not need a hardening process and thus holds it's dimensional tolerances and makes it a lot easier to build cars with tight tolerances and Tesla saves a lot of energy/money not needing to harden off the fresh castings.

Gigacasting is one example of an innovation legacy auto is literally incapable of innovating on their own. Because their employees are trained to not take risks or jeopardize their pensions. That's why they can only make small, incremental changes to proven designs.

 

[Kahpernicus]

Thanks for explaining this. So the giga press (or gigacast) is only forming the aluminum components, but the higher force = higher quality parts.
Why didn't legacy automaker want to do it this way?

Tesla commissioned theses presses for a singular purpose. Old manufactures, where multitaskers for machines.

Risk is too great if it fails.

 

[WHIZZARD OF OZ]

How about... "GIGAFORCE"

CyberLuke, may the GIGAFORCE be with you!

 

[DMC-81]

Unknown formulation but we do know that the formulation was done post DeLorean. So to answer the question from @CyberSleuth directly, I can for certain say that yes, I know that there is certainly a difference between the stainless steel used in the CT vs the DeLorean.

Now, as for what exactly the differences are.... Currently that seems to be a tightly held secret on the CT side. I'm sure that with enough research one could determine what exactly the stainless steel is on the DeLorean. At least with some degree of certainty. I'm not sure Tesla (or more probably SpaceX) will ever willingly let the cat out of the bag as to what is being used on the CT.

The grade of stainless steel used on the DeLorean was 304.

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