rr6013

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The real question in the manufacturing process is when it is roll hardened.

Bending hardenied SS will weaken it. Any welding causes discolouration and the need to fix the finish. I'm also not sure what welding will achieve that an internal glued in structure can't do better. All 8 doors are just flapping in the wind structurally, its just the front and rear fenders theat do some structural load bearing.
I’ll have what you we‘re smoking last night.

Bends in the exoskeleton are structural not deformational(i.e. weakening). Every bend is there to add strength, rigidity and direct forces transmitted into sheetmetal in alignment with structure.

Welds have been reported where prototypes joined sheetmetal edges. Welds are stronger than sheet metal. There need be no deformation, bend that weaken frame. True some loss in strength occurs in the bend. It is true also that every bend contributes greater strength as a result.

LOL how many doors did you see last night?

 

rr6013

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I'm sure it'll be some combination of these things. But Elon said they were going for the folding because a robot could do it.

-Crissa
Yeah…that’s different than “because a robot did it”.

Luv origami, poly design and automation but M3 taught that not all things lend themselves to automation. A lesson that near bankrupt the automaker. There’s a reason the machinery, equipment and tooling hasn’t been set in-place yet at GigaTX.

Guess is that you are right-on that the combination is harder to crack than first thought.
 

TyPope

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That took about 2 minutes and it was very light metal and a very small (relatively) part. I don‘t think this sort of machine would scale up to Cybertruck size.

I think a bit more likely is 5 - 10 machines set up to do 1-2 folds each in series. Each taking about 5-10 seconds before passing it along. This would enable a more fluid flow and cuts or even welds between folds.

(Total guesswork here!)
It doesn't matter how long each bend takes if they use different machines. What matters is the cycle time for each station. Here's a quick example:
Step 1: Bend on in door - 0:20
Step 2: 2nd bend - 0:25
Step 3: Move to 2nd station - 0:15
Step 4: 2nd station first bend - 0:25
Step 5: 2nd station 2nd bend - 0:20
Step 6: Move to 3rd station - 0:15
Step 7: 1st bend at 3rd station - 0:25
Step 8: 2nd and final bend on part - 0:25


Quiz : How long does it take to produce a single part?

Answer: The first part will take 170 seconds to be made and each sequential part will be finished in 50 second intervals (That's the longest it is in any machine). In other words, despite the fact that the part takes over 2 minutes to be made, the fact is the run cycle in this example is just 50 seconds... (the longest time the part spends at any station or machine.

In this example, because the slowest machine takes 50 seconds to make a part, it can produce 576 of these parts per day for a weekly run rate (single 8 hour shift per 5 days ) of 2,880... annually, that'd be 144,000 running that for 50 weeks and ONLY on one shift. Producing more than one vehicle every 50-54 seconds on a single production line gets REALLY fast.

(I designed work stations for GM's Shreveport, LA Truck Assembly Plant once upon a time ago)

EDIT: Fixed a typo.
 
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swengl

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It doesn't matter how long each bend takes if they use different machines. What matters is the cycle time for each station. Here's a quick example:
Step 1: Bend on in door - 0:20
Step 2: 2nd bend - 0:25
Step 3: Move to 2nd station - 0:15
Step 4: 2nd station first bend - 0:25
Step 5: 2nd station 2nd bend - 0:20
Step 6: Move to 3rd station - 0:15
Step 7: 1st bend at 3rd station - 0:25
Step 8: 2nd and final bend on part - 0:25


Quiz : How long does it take to produce a single part?

Answer: The first part will take 170 seconds to be made and each sequential part will be finished in 25 second intervals. In other words, despite the fact that the part takes over 2 minutes to be made, the fact is the run cycle in this example is just 50 seconds... (the longest time the part spends at any station or machine.

In this example, because the slowest machine takes 50 seconds to make a part, it can produce 576 of these parts per day for a weekly run rate (single 8 hour shift per 5 days ) of 2,880... annually, that'd be 144,000 running that for 50 weeks and ONLY on one shift. Producing more than one vehicle every 50-54 seconds on a single production line gets REALLY fast.

(I designed work stations for GM's Shreveport, LA Truck Assembly Plant once upon a time ago)
And once they get the process rolling (no pun intended), Tesla engineers will evaluate the workflow times at each station and will work to reduce the time and the bottleneck(s) any way they can. It will be interesting to see if, in the future, Tesla builds another GF that will also produce the CT and what improvements they build in based on the experience gained in Austin.
 

TyPope

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And once they get the process rolling (no pun intended), Tesla engineers will evaluate the workflow times at each station and will work to reduce the time and the bottleneck(s) any way they can. It will be interesting to see if, in the future, Tesla builds another GF that will also produce the CT and what improvements they build in based on the experience gained in Austin.
I made an error. Each part would take 50 seconds. My calculations on the number made per shift/week/year are correct. I accidentally said each part would come out in 25 second intervals when it is 50 second intervals. I forgot I made each machine have two 25 second bends. The truth is that each machine or a single machine will do multiple bends. I'll edit that.
 


rr6013

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It doesn't matter how long each bend takes if they use different machines. What matters is the cycle time for each station. Here's a quick example:
Step 1: Bend on in door - 0:20
Step 2: 2nd bend - 0:25
Step 3: Move to 2nd station - 0:15
Step 4: 2nd station first bend - 0:25
Step 5: 2nd station 2nd bend - 0:20
Step 6: Move to 3rd station - 0:15
Step 7: 1st bend at 3rd station - 0:25
Step 8: 2nd and final bend on part - 0:25


Quiz : How long does it take to produce a single part?

Answer: The first part will take 170 seconds to be made and each sequential part will be finished in 50 second intervals (That's the longest it is in any machine). In other words, despite the fact that the part takes over 2 minutes to be made, the fact is the run cycle in this example is just 50 seconds... (the longest time the part spends at any station or machine.

In this example, because the slowest machine takes 50 seconds to make a part, it can produce 576 of these parts per day for a weekly run rate (single 8 hour shift per 5 days ) of 2,880... annually, that'd be 144,000 running that for 50 weeks and ONLY on one shift. Producing more than one vehicle every 50-54 seconds on a single production line gets REALLY fast.

(I designed work stations for GM's Shreveport, LA Truck Assembly Plant once upon a time ago)

EDIT: Fixed a typo.
Why RT?

Its not a conditional. The s.s. body has infinite shelf life. No reqmt that it be fabricated RT. What purpose does RT(real time)serve in GigaTX factory?

That’s my factory, I engineer out friction points, time sensitive impacts and any constraint that overrides throughput. Yes Sir, that be fully rolling skate pre-assy, fully formed exoskeleton and I’ll add the seats belts and mirrors.

Best case scenario, there needs be stockpiled 8hr+ exo inventory to keep feeding production in event a hiccup. Throughput baby!

Worst case, we’re building on our hands and knees exoskeletons real time to keep up. Bad day at Willy Wonka’s

edit: real time
 
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rr6013

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  1. Left door, front
  2. Left door, rear
  3. Right door, front
  4. Right door, rear
  5. Frunk lid
  6. Tailgate
  7. Midgate
  8. Charge port door

boom
They sell that by the bag? You guys are into some good stuff – door bender quality. LOL
 

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It doesn't matter how long each bend takes if they use different machines. What matters is the cycle time for each station. Here's a quick example:
Yeah. This is exactly what I was referring to in the second paragraph you are replying to.

Ogre said:
I think a bit more likely is 5 - 10 machines set up to do 1-2 folds each in series. Each taking about 5-10 seconds before passing it along. This would enable a more fluid flow and cuts or even welds between folds.
Also, if one machine takes 90 seconds to make a fold, they can also split the line and have 2 machines working in parallel to make net throughput 45 seconds per unit.
 

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Why RT?

Its not a conditional. The s.s. body has infinite shelf life. No reqmt that it be fabricated RT. What purpose does RT serve in GigaTX factory?

That’s my factory, I engineer out friction points, time sensitive impacts and any constraint that overrides throughput. Yes Sir, that be fully rolling skate pre-assy, fully formed exoskeleton and I’ll add the seats belts and mirrors.

Best case scenario, there needs be stockpiled 8hr+ exo inventory to keep feeding production in event a hiccup. Throughput baby!

Worst case, we’re building on our hands and knees exoskeletons real time to keep up. Bad day at Willy Wonka’s
I have no idea what you are trying to say here. I was talking about building and assembling vehicles. I didn't say anything conditional (and I don't know what you mean by "RT"). To figure out production, the slowest process is the limiting factor. The slowest meaning the time it takes to perform one action - you can cut a process time in half if you have two stations doing the same thing - like having two casting machines making one casting each while taking 100 seconds means there is a 50 second throughput.
 


Mike the cyberguy

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Excitement Intensifies - pics below

Edit: The original tweet has been removed, but pics are still below in all their glory

1666648881160.png


1666648869651.png


1666648859187.png


Original Source:
If those are the bodies they're probably inside a Wooden crate They are probably going to use them for training purposes.😃👍
 

JBee

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  1. Left door, front
  2. Left door, rear
  3. Right door, front
  4. Right door, rear
  5. Frunk lid
  6. Tailgate
  7. Midgate
  8. Charge port door

boom
You forgot the sail storage doors, which also limit the amount of exoskeleton area there is for the structure.

Always surprises me how many people have been looking at the design for years and still don't realise how many things open... ;)


I’ll have what you we‘re smoking last night.

Bends in the exoskeleton are structural not deformational(i.e. weakening). Every bend is there to add strength, rigidity and direct forces transmitted into sheetmetal in alignment with structure.
You could have what I'm having, but that wouldn't make you feel happy. Bit crook atm. 🤧

I can agree that after it is bent the new geometry of the part will make the panel stiffer, but that is not what I meant, I meant the creating of the bend weakens the material it's bending. Think about what happens if you bend steel 4-5 times back and forth.

So do you think they will bend the sheets before they harden them?
If they do then they will weaken at the point of bending because they will exceed the yield strength of the sheet and go into plastic deformation. The press doing it won't be happy either.

If they harden it afterwards, then how do they harden that shape?
 

rr6013

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…do you think they will bend the sheets before they harden them?
If they do then they will weaken at the point of bending because they will exceed the yield strength of the sheet and go into plastic deformation. The press doing it won't be happy either.

If they harden it afterwards, then how do they harden that shape?
Having worked metal by hand, torch and weld… this is 3mm s.s. == 11 gauge.
110.116"2.9mm

un-SWAG Tesla hardens then bends living with any deformational weakening in the break as small cost to pay for the stiffening of the panel. Admittedly, the bends are minor. The loss isn’t structurally significant occurring in the field of the panel. Forces are translated through to edges. Bends are weak bridges on edge which is why welds come in handy at joins.

The 11ga thickness covers all sins in the above scenario. Especially, taking into account structural batterypack is sharing much of the exoskeleton frame loading duty. Yes Tesla you can send a screenshot, in color, of the stress analysis of Cybertrucks exoskeleton for Christmas! So cool…

Get well my man. The resurgence of COVID in CHN, USA means you need all you’ve got this bugger starts traveling. Panama had its first week reporting zero COVID deaths. The country can’t suffer thru another lockdown as its down to grocery stores and a few diehards serving brewskis and grog.
 

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I know just enough about steel strength to use a few phases I don’t fully understand. So forgive me if this is stupid.

Could they heat treat the metal where the folds will be to make it more ductile at the corners?
 

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I know just enough about steel strength to use a few phases I don’t fully understand. So forgive me if this is stupid.

Could they heat treat the metal where the folds will be to make it more ductile at the corners?
Yes, but then it's not hardened anymore. Permanently.

-Crissa

 

 
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