Next level hate. Wild times.

[REM]

Correct! Most, if not all, other states too counselor! Also, ignoring all of that I’m going to assume that you’re not a sociopath (you did pass character & fitness at some point after all) so probably taking a human life is not on your checklist for your average weekend excursion. ?

You’d have to live in a real shit-hole country to have that kind of mentality.

Good thing neither of you guys are the arbiters of when someone feels threatened enough to defend themselves.

Someone screaming at you from a distance, red faced, balled fists, suddenly now charging in your direction is a textbook threat of serious bodily harm.

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[Black306]

There is a useful advice for this very thing :

I’ve used something similar. Walked up to people looking at my truck and said [in a negative tone] ‘what do you think about this rolling refrigerator?’ They give me their honest [negative] opinion and backtrack a little after they realize it’s mine. ?

 

[dalton108]

Good think neither of you guys are the arbiters of when someone feels threatened enough to defend themselves.

Someone screaming at you, red faced, balled fists, charging in your direction is a textbook threat of serious bodily harm.

Well, having gone to law school and having the textbooks to show it. I’m gonna say not so much. Fear has to be reasonable.

Being an irrational pus*** won’t keep you out of shackles if you get it wrong. Even in self defense situations, the apprehension and force have to be “reasonable.”

I trust OP would’ve reported additional facts if they were relevant. Such as those fist being “raised” or the loon committing an actual assault which is defined as:

-————————————

[Common law basic primer].

Assault is:

“An intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.”

Key Elements of Assault (Common Law)
1. Intent: The defendant must intend to cause apprehension of harmful or offensive contact.

2. Apprehension: The victim must >>>reasonably perceive<<<< an imminent threat of harm.

3. Imminence: The threat must be immediate, not a future or conditional threat.

4. No Physical Contact Required: Unlike battery, assault does not require actual physical contact—only the fear or apprehension of it.

-————————————

I did say in my prior post that facts are relevant. Since OP does this for a living, I have absolutely no doubt that he knows exactly what facts are relevant and if they attenuated, he would’ve reported them.

Under the facts that he reported you would be doing yourself a huge disservice. But you are free to take your own counsel.

People are allowed to be angry and clinch their fists, jaws or anuses in your presence without giving you the right to kill them. Just try to remember that.

 

[dalton108]

His behavior totally checks out for a lot of bikers out there lol. I call this phenomenon "tiktok brain rot". If you check this persons social media logs, I guarantee you that they consume media in the exact same manner as you would see watching the documentary "Idiocracy".

Also, for some reason we, as a society for the last few decades, has deemed it appropriate to shut down all mental health facilities that were equipped to house the deranged. ?‍

What did you call us?

 

[GuyV]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is our hatred of the Kansas City Chiefs

Nope, not even that. I'm in Missouri, and they are our only remaining football team. ?

 

[sefar]

I’m also a criminal defense attorney and would add that displaying a handgun in that split moment in time, with emotions running hot, invites review by overzealous prosecutors to determine if charges should be brought against the gun weilding person. Especially if there isn’t anyone else with a weapon. The best way to avoid charges is to circumvent behavior that could be Interpretted as criminal conduct.

My brother in Christ, do you realize that self-defense law is much more complicated than described? And that your statement posted to your online account could be evidence that a future prosecutor might be permitted by a trial judge to present to a jury in furtherance of arguments of premeditation if in fact you were to shoot and kill someone in the future, or at least to prove indifference or recklessness?

Agree. I'm an attorney in MO where all you need to carry a gun is a gun. I took a CCW class and know the law. Castle doctrine is expansive here, but I wouldn't test the legality of pulling a weapon in the circumstances that OP mentioned. You don't have to wait to get hit here, but I wouldn't be confident that a guy yelling with fists at his side rises to the level of imminent danger.

We got training from a guy who had pulled his on a gang member. He had to move 3 times and always look over his shoulder.

People also forget that criminal liability is way different from civil liability, not to mention the psychological burden of taking a life. Either can bankrupt you.

 

[cybercricket]

Good thing neither of you guys are the arbiters of when someone feels threatened enough to defend themselves.

Someone screaming at you from a distance, red faced, balled fists, suddenly now charging in your direction is a textbook threat of serious bodily harm.

I feel threatened seeing bearded skinny jeans hipsters in Portland walking in my direction. The threshold isn't at how you or any random person may feel, the threshold is at the evidence of an opportunity AND intent to harm you. It's difficult to impossible to prove your life was in danger if all they had was their "fists", they didn't actually hit you, and their attempt to hit you wasn't caught on camera before you used force. At the end of the day you do you, but remember that if other people (family) depend on you, being in jail for a decent number of years doesn't help them much.

 

[3cyberbeast]

Mental health crisis in America...

Absolutely

 

[dalton108]

I feel threatened seeing bearded skinny jeans hipsters in Portland walking in my direction. The threshold isn't at how you or any random person may feel, the threshold is at the evidence of an opportunity AND intent to harm you. It's difficult to impossible to prove your life was in danger if all they had was their "fists", they didn't actually hit you, and their attempt to hit you wasn't caught on camera before you used force. At the end of the day you do you, but remember that if other people (family) depend on you, being in jail for a decent number of years doesn't help them much.

The arbiter is the “reasonable person” standard. A reasonable person, at law, is an “objective standard” it is not “subjective.” It’s what we lawyers call a “term of art.”

It is not based on the defendant’s actual mindset (subjective), but on how an ordinary person should have acted in the same situation (objective). When the dust settles, there will be Monday morning quarterbacking and your life/liberty may be on the line!

A “reasonable person” exercises average care, skill, and judgment in conduct and decision-making, as required by society, to minimize risk and harm to others.

You’re not living in an action movie or video game. Everyone around you is a real person with the same inalienable rights as you have - not an NPC - and you don’t get to kill them (without consequences) because you felt unreasonably a-scared. Nor are you Judge Dredd!

You guys have four (by my count) unaffiliated lawyers, now, all telling you how this works - on this one thread! Do what you think is prudent. ??‍

But, if you decide to make a mess of your life (either criminally, civilly, financially, or emotionally and mentally), don’t say you weren’t warned.

 

[Cyber Man]

You ARE a killer asteroid headed our way!

lol.. with one leg on Delorean and another on Cybertruck! ?

 

[Crissa]

“… [T]he only people buying Teslas in [China] are those who like do not know about cars.”

?

That's most people.

There is a meme that Tesla is behind, but it's not based on anything.

But... Tesla's sales in China slipped, too.

-Crissa

 

[Mini2nut]

I predict a rough Q1 & Q2 for Tesla.

No new products other than a refreshed Model Y. And then we have Musk's politics unfortunately.

 

[dalton108]

I predict a rough Q1 & Q2 for Tesla.

For us all I bet.

 

[SlegMD]

If you guys encounter these fellers then you need to disengage. Squaring up (even simply attempting de-escalation) will get you liability in these situations should things turn for the worst. Its not worth adding this interaction and potential cost to your life.

 

[thebiglebowskiisfine]

Just stupidity - I got two ladies (one had a beard) flip me off going in the opposite direction in a Subaru.

Here's the thing - I didn't vote for Trump, but the more manufactured outrage I get = the more I am inclined to move away from the party. How the fu*k do they know what policies I support by the kind of car I drive.

These "crusadeists" don't understand that they are pushing away moderate Democrats - and that's the #1 reason they lost the election to begin with.

Just incredible stupidity overall.

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