Next level hate. Wild times.

[GuyV]

There's long been a rumor they're going to rendition him to China but I don't think it's likely they'd retaliate against Musk specifically.

-Crissa

China gained credibility and cachet by financing and building those factories for Tesla. Extreme protectionist tariffs on BYD? Handing them a couple huge modern factories that already ship EVs globally might ameliorate that. Tesla's cachet has been wrecked and China is now recognized as the world's EV leader. Nothing personal though, just expediency. I'm sure Elon understands that.

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[dalton108]

Three stories happened over the last couple of days.

1. Yesterday, a 20teen red Mustang pulled up beside me at a light. Window rolled down. I rolled down mine. The driver was an older white lady with a Marlboro Red dangling from her lips. She yelled, "That thing is so cot damn ugly!" Without skipping a beat, I replied, "it's like black licorice... you either LOVE IT! Or you fuuuugging HATE IT!" Her hubby in the passenger seat started CRACKING UP!!!! Light turned green just then....me "But she's fvcking fast!!!" Beast Moded out of the hole! Never saw them again.

2. A Latino gentleman pulled up beside me at a light in a slightly lifted F-250 (big truck). So I raised my Beast's suspension to high. He saw it. Rolled down his window, laughed, and said "I WASN'T EXPECTING THAT!!! I really like these things!" I said, "I saw you lifted there beside me and was like "oh hell no!" lol". Him: You like it? Me: Honestly, love it. [had FSD on...light turned green] Me with hands in the air: "...and it drives itself!!!!" FSD did what FSD does! Highbeam flashes from my new friend in my sideview mirror.

3. A friend and a friend of a friend were going to walk home from a get-together. I said, you wanna go for a ride in the UFO instead of walking? Sure. Did the usual walk around. Did a Light Show. Hit the road. BLEW. THEIR. EFFING MINDS with a couple launches. Got them to the destination...friend of the friend, never met before looked me in the eyes, super serious, and said..."dude. I REALLY appreciate that." I just chuckled and said "No worries brother." Him: "No seriously. Thanks." I thought he was going to propose or something. ?

I don't get much hate. But I'm in a Red part of town in a Red State. ?‍ Jussayin'

I’m in a blue part of a purple state and my interactions are about par for the course of yours. Heavier on the dusting of fools at stoplight though, probably.

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

Well thankfully I don’t live in that dumper of a state. In Florida we live under a better set of rules. Like I said, I would blow that mother fucker away if he came at me with a closed fist.

Utah has nearly identical laws as Florida with regard to stand your ground, etc. In fact, Utah allows carry on school property. One of the very few states that does.

 

[cybercricket]

Utah has nearly identical laws as Florida with regard to stand your ground, etc. In fact, Utah allows carry on school property. One of the very few states that does.

All states are pretty much identical in baseline use of force laws. There are some differences with the duty to retreat across the nation, and of course the notable exception to defense of property in Texas. A lot of people overestimate how being in the "correct" red state gives them some kind of advantage. I encourage folks to follow "Armed Attorneys" on Youtube, with many examples of people getting their attitude straightened out even in Texas.

 

[RM Rilke]

The arbiter is the “reasonable person” standard. A reasonable person, at law, is an “objective standard” it is not “subjective.” It’s what we lawyers call a “term of art.”

It is not based on the defendant’s actual mindset (subjective), but on how an ordinary person should have acted in the same situation (objective). When the dust settles, there will be Monday morning quarterbacking and your life/liberty may be on the line!

A “reasonable person” exercises average care, skill, and judgment in conduct and decision-making, as required by society, to minimize risk and harm to others.

You’re not living in an action movie or video game. Everyone around you is a real person with the same inalienable rights as you have - not an NPC - and you don’t get to kill them (without consequences) because you felt unreasonably a-scared. Nor are you Judge Dredd!

You guys have four (by my count) unaffiliated lawyers, now, all telling you how this works - on this one thread! Do what you think is prudent. ??‍

But, if you decide to make a mess of your life (either criminally, civilly, financially, or emotionally and mentally), don’t say you weren’t warned.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I would only add that self defense is an affirmative defense. Meaning the person claiming it has the burden of proof. it is proven by objective facts, not feelings.

 

[FarAway]

circle jerk
[ˈsərk(ə)l ˌjərk]
noun
NORTH AMERICAN ENGLISH

1. informal
   a situation in which a group of people engage in self-indulgent or self-gratifying behavior, especially by reinforcing each other's views or attitudes:
   "those award ceremonies are big circle jerks"
2. vulgar slang
   an act of group masturbation among males.

 

[CyberGus]

I’m in a blue part of a purple state and my interactions are about par for the course of yours

I’m in Austin and I mostly get “oh look, another Cybertruck, whatever”

 

[dalton108]

circle jerk
[ˈsərk(ə)l ˌjərk]
noun
NORTH AMERICAN ENGLISH

1. informal
   a situation in which a group of people engage in self-indulgent or self-gratifying behavior, especially by reinforcing each other's views or attitudes:
   "those award ceremonies are big circle jerks"
2. vulgar slang
   an act of group masturbation among males.

Do you just want one of us to tell you that you’re right even though you’re wrong? Tantruming definitely won’t make it so. Since you’re already looking, what’s the definition of “butt hurt?”

From where I’m from (switch and belt wupin’ hide tanning deep south), people (parents in particular) have a saying, “a hard head makes a soft behind.” Butt hurt.

I understand this is a real problem in prison too. Butt hurt. ??‍

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

All states are pretty much identical in baseline use of force laws. There are some differences with the duty to retreat across the nation, and of course the notable exception to defense of property in Texas. A lot of people overestimate how being in the "correct" red state gives them some kind of advantage. I encourage folks to follow "Armed Attorneys" on Youtube, with many examples of people getting their attitude straightened out even in Texas.

Yeah I wasnt discussing the legalities of lethal force defense. But I will completely disagree with you about identical baseline for use of force. States have very different laws regarding what you need to do to use lethal force. My CCW course was very clear on being sure that you read and know the laws before entering a state. Example… some states do not allow carry in restaurants. Some don’t in bars. In Colorado you can carry in a bar but you better not be drinking because there is no line on how much alcohol constitutes an infraction. Utah, as stated before is one of the very very few states that allows carry on school grounds. The scariest laws? The ones that say you must retreat and prove it to use lethal force.

So honestly there is no baseline because the range from stand your ground to retreat. Very very big differences that can be the difference to having a valid defense and not having one at all.

My response that you quoted was me telling someone that Utah laws with regard to being “a dumper of a state” was incorrect with its comparison to FL. In fact I would hazard to guess Utah’s laws are less restrictive than FL with firearms. I think you misunderstood my comments.

 

[cybercricket]

Yeah I wasnt discussing the legalities of lethal force defense. But I will completely disagree with you about identical baseline for use of force. States have very different laws regarding what you need to do to use lethal force. My CCW course was very clear on being sure that you read and know the laws before entering a state. Example… some states do not allow carry in restaurants. Some don’t in bars. In Colorado you can carry in a bar but you better not be drinking because there is no line on how much alcohol constitutes an infraction. Utah, as stated before is one of the very very few states that allows carry on school grounds. The scariest laws? The ones that say you must retreat and prove it to use lethal force.

So honestly there is no baseline because the range from stand your ground to retreat. Very very big differences that can be the difference to having a valid defense and not having one at all.

My response that you quoted was me telling someone that Utah laws with regard to being “a dumper of a state” was incorrect with its comparison to FL. In fact I would hazard to guess Utah’s laws are less restrictive than FL with firearms. I think you misunderstood my comments.

You're confusing firearms carry laws and related peculiarities with the actual use of force. The two baseline principles that are identical across the nation are the proportionality and immanency. In simple terms you're only allowed to use the level of force necessary to deal with the particular threat, and only if you're facing the threat right this moment.

I also already called out the duty to retreat, which is somewhat tangential.

 

[REM]

Well, having gone to law school and having the textbooks to show it. I’m gonna say not so much. Fear has to be reasonable.

Being an irrational pus*** won’t keep you out of shackles if you get it wrong. Even in self defense situations, the apprehension and force have to be “reasonable.”

I trust OP would’ve reported additional facts if they were relevant. Such as those fist being “raised” or the loon committing an actual assault which is defined as:

-————————————

[Common law basic primer].

Assault is:

“An intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact.”

Key Elements of Assault (Common Law)
1. Intent: The defendant must intend to cause apprehension of harmful or offensive contact.

2. Apprehension: The victim must >>>reasonably perceive<<<< an imminent threat of harm.

3. Imminence: The threat must be immediate, not a future or conditional threat.

4. No Physical Contact Required: Unlike battery, assault does not require actual physical contact—only the fear or apprehension of it.

-————————————

I did say in my prior post that facts are relevant. Since OP does this for a living, I have absolutely no doubt that he knows exactly what facts are relevant and if they attenuated, he would’ve reported them.

Under the facts that he reported you would be doing yourself a huge disservice. But you are free to take your own counsel.

People are allowed to be angry and clinch their fists, jaws or anuses in your presence without giving you the right to kill them. Just try to remember that.

Good Info for others, but no need lawyer this one up for me. I taught other professional DoD gun-fighters the applications of Deadly Force and Use of Force Continuum for several years. ?

 

[REM]

What did you call us?

I literally had a pack of these guys in the parking lot with me today as I was riding my e-moto through some trails lmao. And I mean those exact guys ?

 

[M0unt41nm4n]

You're confusing firearms carry laws and related peculiarities with the actual use of force. The two baseline principles that are identical across the nation are the proportionality and immanency. In simple terms you're only allowed to use the level of force necessary to deal with the particular threat, and only if you're facing the threat right this moment.

I also already called out the duty to retreat, which is somewhat tangential.

Right… dude… I’m on your side 150%. IANAL… I won’t argue with you I don’t purport to know the intricacies other than proof of burden can change based on which state you are in. I fully agree with you and others that if you pull that weapon, you are in for a hell of a ride, even if you are in the right. But tangential or not, that retreat vs stand your ground can make things a lot harder for your defense.

Go back to my statement that Utah laws are less restrictive than FL as claimed by the other member. That doesn’t take a lawyer to figure out. It’s in state statute. I actually wasn’t confusing anything. I was talking general laws including both utilizing deadly force AND specific carry laws.

Again, I think you are taking a shot at me for what reason?

 

[cybercricket]

Right… dude… I’m on your side 150%. IANAL… I won’t argue with you I don’t purport to know the intricacies other than proof of burden can change based on which state you are in. I fully agree with you and others that if you pull that weapon, you are in for a hell of a ride, even if you are in the right. But tangential or not, that retreat vs stand your ground can make things a lot harder for your defense.

Go back to my statement that Utah laws are less restrictive than FL as claimed by the other member. That doesn’t take a lawyer to figure out. It’s in state statute.

Again, I think you are taking a shot at me for what reason?

I'm not taking a shot at you. You just inspired me to clarify some points

 

[REM]

It's difficult to impossible to prove your life was in danger if all they had was their "fists", they didn't actually hit you, and their attempt to hit you wasn't caught on camera before you used force. At the end of the day you do you, but remember that if other people (family) depend on you, being in jail for a decent number of years doesn't help them much.

Your assessment is categorically wrong; if you are a civilian in the United States and someone is threatening you will serious bodily harm, the onus is on the person feeling threatened to make sound judgement whether or not they feel the need to defend themselves against a threat.

The average man can beat your brains in with only his fists. You absolutely DO NOT have to wait until your are choking on your own blood and fading to black before you brandish or deploy self defense measures. In most cases, however, de-escalation is a first resort and is heavily pushed as the preferred method of resolution.

context: I taught other professionals in the DoD for years on this subject.

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