Owner experiences steering and brake failure

JBee

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1. Brake by wire simply means the brake pedal input is electronically transmitted to ibooster. Ibooster then determines how much brake pressure to put. Even the mechanical linkage for backup is only maintain input to ibooster in case electrical connection to ibooster is shut down. Hence its by wire.

2. Ring bus is here to stay- it highly unlikely to have switch fail completely that data wouldn't be transmitted. Data packet can be rerouted on different wires (of course if the harness is completely cut between two switches- the system fails). Part of benefit with going to Ethernet is no longer dedicated can connection between two point.

3. Redundancy is achieved when you have multiple point of failure not a single point. Because it makes probabilities of system failure so minute due to not all point of failure would fail at once.

4. I still don't understand how 48V system fail would cause 1 or 2 ASIL-D system to fail at same time. Which to me is clear that at least at car level power path is a questionable mark.

5. I only brought up software issue due to 2 reasons

A. I believe the case in Phoenix is right after software update.

B. I really can't believe that Tesla didn't design another power path from another power source. That is strange
1. I'd say it's a hybrid system though, not purely by wire? The mechanical actuation of the pedal still compresses hydraulic fluid that actuates the brake calipers on each wheel. The brake sensor on the other hand just modulates the level of brake boost, but doesn't directly actuate the brake calipers, unlike Brembo Sensify.

2. Yep agree. CAN was also bandwidth limited.

3. Theres a limit to where redundancy adds reliability though, in that more complex systems also have more parts to fail. Similar to your lidar vs camera vision arguments, having the same power modules for ease or manufacturing and repair, might also make it subject to the same fault. The problem here also becomes isolation in that two asymmetric systems can also fail by the same fault, simply by being connected to the same action. This seems to be the case with the SbW and brakes failing at the same time, which should never be allowed in a vehicle design.

4/B I agree that it is strange that there is no seperate path, but if so I suspect the culprit is the PCS that has bidirectional DC converters that do double time as AC invetters to run outlets, and as the onboard charger etc.

But honestly, I'm not 100% on any common culprit, given the different repairs made so dar, for mostly the same problem.
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BannedByTMC

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Just curious, why come to a vehicle owners club to bash a vehicle and the company that makes it?

I could never see myself wasting my own time to say, go to an Apple message board and tell everyone why I don't like Apple products.
I find thoughtful informed critique helpful. It's different than useless FUD.
 

krispykreme

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Just curious, why come to a vehicle owners club to bash a vehicle and the company that makes it?

I could never see myself wasting my own time to say, go to an Apple message board and tell everyone why I don't like Apple products.
1. I am going to be a CT owner once I get my truck.

2. Bash? Being ignorant owner is far worse. I am simply telling what I know. It’s people like you make Internet forum useless.
 

mark555055c

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1. I am going to be a CT owner once I get my truck.

2. Bash? Being ignorant owner is far worse. I am simply telling what I know. It’s people like you make Internet forum useless.
Oh, interesting, despite it's flaws and being totally unsafe, according your engineering expertise, you're going to own one. Sounds normal.

LOL, sorry to everyone here for degrading the CT owners club experience, optimism is a drag.😂
 


krispykreme

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Oh, interesting, despite it's flaws and being totally unsafe, according your engineering expertise, you're going to own one. Sounds normal.

LOL, Sorry to everyone here for degrading the CT owners club experience, optimism is a drag.😂
I have close to 50 cars in my possession.

I like cars and I always wanted a full steel body car like a De Lorean.

This isn’t my first Tesla either.

This is problem with people like you. Lack capability to be open minded and take effort to understand the product/technology behind it. On top of that you have great ability to put your own word and opinion as mine.

That is how echo chamber is formed.

I think what bothers you is that you don’t have ability to be open minded while there are other who can.

IMG_5170.jpeg
 

mark555055c

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I have close to 50 cars in my possession.

I like cars and I always wanted a full steel body car like a De Lorean.

This isn’t my first Tesla either.

This is problem with people like you. Lack capability to be open minded and take effort to understand the product/technology behind it.

That is how echo chamber is formed.

I think what bothers you is that you don’t have ability to be open minded while there are other who can.

IMG_5170.jpeg
Well that's good. I own close to three vehicles, and one bicycle. No one cares.

I'm buying the vehicle for the same reason.
It has a warranty so if it breaks, Tesla fixes it.

I trust the reputation of the engineers at Tesla who build the world's safest vehicles. I trust that they didn't drop the ball on vehicle control systems, the most important factor in vehicle safety.
 

krispykreme

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Well that's good. I own close to three vehicles, and one bicycle. No one cares.

I'm buying the vehicle for the same reason.
It has a warranty so if it breaks, Tesla fixes it.

I trust the reputation of the engineers at Tesla who build the world's safest vehicles. I trust that they didn't drop the ball on vehicle control systems, the most important factor in vehicle safety.

Again that is your opinion and your blind trust. But that is you and you only.

I like to learn and be open mind about things. Too bad NHTSA and DMV doesn’t agree with you. That is why those agency exists :).

If you don’t anything technical to add to this discussion. Then walk away. I have no interest in getting into discussion about personal faith.
 

mark555055c

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Again that is your opinion and your blind trust. But that is you and you only.

I like to learn and be open mind about things. Too bad NHTSA and DMV doesn’t agree with you. That is why those agency exists :).

If you don’t anything technical to add to this discussion. Then walk away. I have no interest in getting into discussion about personal faith.
You and Dan O'dowd with those open minds, lol.
 


krispykreme

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You and Dan O'dowd with those open minds, lol.
Hahaha

You know what is the most ironic thing is.

If you actually have any open mind left- green hill isn’t even developing actual self driving software. Green hill is actually a real time operating system used to monitor if software redundancy (in this case control stack redundancy) on different core is performing like it should.

Again- do actual homework rather than being a lemming jumping off cliff like masses :)
 

mark555055c

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Hahaha

You know what is the most ironic thing is.

If you actually have any open mind left- green hill isn’t even developing actual self driving software. Green hill is actually a real time operating system used to monitor if software redundancy (in this case control stack redundancy) on different core is performing like it should.

Again- do actual homework rather than being a lemming jumping off cliff like masses :)
But lidar bro, lidar.😂
 

krispykreme

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But lidar bro, lidar.😂
You know that SAE- which create J3016 (autonomous driving classification)

Just created a specific task force into how to incorporate lidar into autonomous system.

https://www.sae.org/pps/standards-n...ate-lidar-sensors-for-automotive-applications

Perhaps you should include SAE, NHTSA, DOJ, CA DMV to your list of bias and not open minded echo chamber list.

Again- if you don’t have any technical background. You are welcome to drop off. We don’t need to see your echo chamber and discuss your blind faith.
 

mark555055c

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I have no technical background, don't need it for this topic. I'm am here to get the follow up or details on the OP.

Feel free to continue with your technical walls of text in your crusade against Tesla's technology and sensor suite. 😀
 

Crissa

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... The possibility of an electrical failure and having no power redundancy on the steer by wire is not a small issue. Being unable to steer to the side of the road is a concern, and it warrants investigation. Stopping in the middle of the highway is unsafe, so...
There are literally more than one power systems.

And any EV can stop in the middle of a highway. As could any ICE vehicle who suffers a transmission or linkage failure.

What the heck happened for this conversation to go seven pages?

I thought yahoo was a chocolate drink.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yahoo!

Geez, it's a thirty year old search engine and news source. I have a friend that works there. It's still operated, despite no longer being independent.

-Crissa
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