Powershare Full Panel Backup

[flyinglow]

A google search for this finds many references including one from their VP of electrical hardware:
"24 kW" Rivian DC V2H

Investor day:

via https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle...nal-ev-charger-to-power-your-home/ar-BB1p0Jfo

Very cool! Thanks.

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[Woodrick]

You are misunderstanding. OP is taking about normal safe NEC compliant installation of Gateway between meter and nlmain panel. With the downside being the need to manually load shed before activating Powershare.

Alternative being a new backed up loads panel for an additional $3k.


Nowhere are they talking about a setup that could back feed.

Yes, indeed I did miss that the Gateway was in there no matter what.

But even then, as long as the breakers are on, there's a high probability (Murphy assures it) that the fail-over will fail and house goes dark because of overload.

And if the house doesn't go dark, then it may in a little bit. Why, because how do you know the power has failed and should turn off the breakers?

 

[mongo]

A Powerwall 3 installation is going to run you $11.500 dollars for the first one.

Not if you already have Powershare...

 

[mongo]

Yes, indeed I did miss that the Gateway was in there no matter what.

But even then, as long as the breakers are on, there's a high probability (Murphy assures it) that the fail-over will fail and house goes dark because of overload.

And if the house doesn't go dark, then it may in a little bit. Why, because how do you know the power has failed and should turn off the breakers?

I believe the app notifies you when Powershare kicks in.

For those of us with manual generators (especially ones < 11.5kW) Powershare to the main panel is still an improvement.

 

[Woodrick]

I believe the app notifies you when Powershare kicks in.

For those of us with manual generators (especially ones < 11.5kW) Powershare to the main panel is still an improvement.

The app probably does, just have to respond to it (and the thousand other stupid alerts from my phone).

For those of us auto generators, it's 30 seconds of dark. And EVERYTHING in the house stays on.

Warning: Be careful when generator kicks on in December. Neighbors tend to get upset when they are in the cold and all your outside Christmas lights are on.

 

[Vagis9780]

I have powershare installed and working properly between my meter and my main panel. My entire house is safely backed up. If I turn off an individual breaker it is not dangerous or unsafe.

The Gateway 3V ensures the grid is down and isolates the entire house from the grid before allowing the truck to power the house.

Yes, I would backup your entire panel if that is what you want.

This reply is the only correct one in this tread of replies. Only a Tesla approved installer is allowed to install gateway. The gateway controls the grid.

 

[AlmostHuman]

Yeah it disconnects immediately and physically on grid loss. Then use if grid returns it waits about 5 mins. Had done that in even quick power flashes or surge situations for us.

Yeah same here.

 

[Crissa]

Flipping breakers to disconnect the house is truly one of the most dangerous things that you can do. There are so many ways it can go wrong, so many ways for people to get killed.
And it is so "family unfriendly." While you may be able to do it the right way, seldom can any other family members do it. What if you are out of town?

Just do it the right way. And then when the power goes out, there is no panic to get up and do anything.

This is just not a thing.

Turning off breakers and applying they correct amount of loads is fine.

If there's an underpower situation, the power source will shut off. Hardly a safety issue. You're no worse off than you were before plugging the truck in.

That's generally supporting National Electric Code.

That's for automatic shifting.

It really depends where you live, I lose power quite often. But then, I installed a whole home generator and I never have to think about it again. Needless to say, but I will not be setting up power share.

That's just silly. Generator power anywhere costs more than grid electricity in California. I'd rather be using my batteries. They've already provided enough power to pay for themselves.

Yah, myself included. House has 2x200A main disconnectas coming off meter that feed internal panels. One will get backed up. Other not. Will need to shift circuits around for automatic operation or add contactors to the unneed loads.

Holy moly that's alot of power! ^-^

-Crissa

 

[txtravwill]

Someone has to say it, imo the whole powershare in the US is a load of ? ?.

Going back decades, i can count on 1 hand when i lit a candle because the lights were out. Im not going to hack/complicate my house's electrical system. Forget about actually paying for it.

Are you in a city/urban area, perhaps. Here where we are, we lose power a good number of times a year when powerful storms come through. While we have underground utilities in our neighborhood, they are not on the way here and tend to have issues at times. That and I like to have backup ready to go in the other technical/sabotage scenarios.

For me, our system has 2 200 amp panels, 2 powerwalls on each side, and solar on each side to recharge daily. But those 2 power walls at least on one key side are not enough at times for a long-term outage or to carry use through a long night followed by a cloudy day. The CT with PowerShare offers tremendous value being its like adding 6-9 more power walls depending on state of charge to a single side.

 

[Woodrick]

That's just silly. Generator power anywhere costs more than grid electricity in California. I'd rather be using my batteries. They've already provided enough power to pay for themselves.


-Crissa

It's far from being silly. Thinking that 100kWh is enough can be considered ludicrous by many.

The cost of any backup solution is the first question. Paying $1, $1000, $10000, $100000, can easily be considered a waste of money.
UNTIL the power goes out, then the $100000 may sound cheap. The cost of the fuel to run the generator is relatively not important. If it is 100 degrees or 0 degrees, I'm happy to pay to stay alive.

I don't know how long your batteries will last, but I'm looking at a week to over a month on my generator.
When hurricanes pass you by, it isn't uncommon to lose power for a week or more.

And I really don't want to have to worry about my freezer thawing when I have to drive 60 miles away to find any power, let alone a Supercharger.

Those might not be YOUR requirements, but don't go belittling others because it is theirs.

 

[Crissa]

The cost of fuel alone per kWh generated is higher than peak grid price per kWh. Not to mention maintenance.

Batteries get cheaper over how much you use them - and lithium is happier sitting around than fuel, let alone the engine to burn it.

Your argument is nonsensical. Batteries are just better, faster at providing backup power.

-Crissa

 

[Woodrick]

The cost of fuel alone per kWh generated is higher than peak grid price per kWh. Not to mention maintenance.

Batteries get cheaper over how much you use them - and lithium is happier sitting around than fuel, let alone the engine to burn it.

Your argument is nonsensical. Batteries are just better, faster at providing backup power.

-Crissa

When the power is out, I don't really care about the cost of gas (propane in my case).

Batteries are extremely limited in their backup potential. They are usually measured in hours, not days or weeks.
My generator is capable of 60kW for weeks.

I can charge the Cybertruck and other EVs multiple times at the same time. How many times can you add 123kWH to the Cybertruck?

Each has their use.

 

[Crissa]

When the power is out, I don't really care about the cost of gas (propane in my case).

Batteries are extremely limited in their backup potential. They are usually measured in hours, not days or weeks.
My generator is capable of 60kW for weeks.

I can charge the Cybertruck and other EVs multiple times at the same time. How many times can you add 123kWH to the Cybertruck?

Each has their use.

How often is your power out for weeks?

And do you really have a thousand gallon tank of diesel (it would be 2-5x for propane) sitting around for a week of 60kW baseline?

And if you're out for a week, having a battery means not running the generator unless your load exceeds your capacity. For me, it means my generator runs 2-6 hours a day instead of 24. That's 2-5 gallons of propane a day vs 24.

And generators don't work with solar - in that, they can't help you keep your solar generating while the grid is awol.

I don't understand where you're getting these absolutely bonkers statements lately.

-Crissa

 

[Woodrick]

How often is your power out for weeks?

And do you really have a thousand gallon tank of diesel (it would be 2-5x for propane) sitting around for a week of 60kW baseline?

And if you're out for a week, having a battery means not running the generator unless your load exceeds your capacity. For me, it means my generator runs 2-6 hours a day instead of 24. That's 2-5 gallons of propane a day vs 24.

And generators don't work with solar - in that, they can't help you keep your solar generating while the grid is awol.

I don't understand where you're getting these absolutely bonkers statements lately.

-Crissa

I know if a site, a large company, who's data center was in the middle of a busy urban area with power all over the place. There's no way that they should lose power, let alone long enough for the UPSs to run dry. But they had a generator that was able to provide partial building power.
They were out for 10 days!

I'm 60 more miles north of Atlanta, it's 15 minutes to the nearest small city. My power is overhead and all I get is power and Internet from off-property. Even my water pump needs electricity. (I think that the pump itself is on a 30A circuit).

Your fuel consumption numbers are flawed. Fuel flow is not the same under all conditions, and what happens when you have to recharge your batteries. Same amount of energy, basically same amount of gas.

I'm not sure why you don't think that solar doesn't work with generators, they certainly can. If they ae grid intertie, the generator will actually allow the solar to work, otherwise, grid intertie solar shuts down with power gone.

No, I don't have a 1,000-gallon tank, only 500 gallons. I know, it's a chance. But I'm in an area where there is no commercial LP service and a number of propane vendors to roll trucks.
And yes, if I feel that it is going to be an extended outage, I can dramatically decrease usage and isolate if needed. Yes, if the generator was fully loaded, it's hours of run time, but it isn't it's significantly over spec'd on purpose. While it's 6 gph LPG consumption at full load, most of the time it may be using less than your little generator. Larger generators are much more efficient than smaller ones. I'm expecting 300-400 hours of run-time without touching anything. And it'll crank and run even if I'm not at home, completely autonomous operation.

Being a large generator and running at 1800 rpm it is really quiet. My neighbors little Generac is louder than mine, and it's 100 ft away behind a fence.

If I'm watching Netflix, I just continue to watch it. The TV is on UPS and all the Internet equipment is on an on-line UPS, i.e. it is ALWAYS on the inverter, no switchover. And I can continue to binge Netflix for days as a couch potato.

My solution makes lot more sense for my requirements and situation. Yours makes sense for you. There's nothing wrong with that.

How many runtime hours do you get without touching anything?

 

[Crissa]

Nice of you to say my fuel numbers are flawed, when you can't actually point out what's flawed about them. My fuel flow line sorta maxes out at a little over a gallon an hour, but I can't get my generator to consume much less than half a gallon an hour, either. While power output can be from 0kW usable to just over 4.5kW usable in that range.

You said 60kW for 'weeks' and I gave you the fuel consumption for that.

You can totally hire out a generator, too, just as easily as you can get a fuel truck to your tank.

I don't understand why you're making these absolutely bonkers statements about power backups.

-Crissa

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