Powershare Full Panel Backup

[AlmostHuman]

A certified electrician isn't going to install it that way. That's against code. The electrician may not have completely understood your needs, or you may not have completely understood what they said.

Or, if they did, they may not be certified.
These often have to have permits puled, an inspector definitely won't allow it.

There are situations where Powerwalls are used in configurations where they provide load shedding capability, charging at night cheap electricity and discharging during the day, offsetting the expensive electricity. These are grid intertie.
If you lose power with a grid intertie solution, the Powerwall will shut down. It will not provide a backup when running a grid intertie, because of the exact reasons I'm talking about.

I was under the impression you must have a Backup Gateway if you have a Powerwall installed. That Backup Gateway will disconnect the grid connection and wait 5 minutes after it senses grid power before activating that leg again. Right?

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[txtravwill]

I have two gateways each with a 200amp panel, each 2 powerwalls and solar on each, basically 2 homes in a way. But also like that the truck can feed the entire panel. Not enough for everything to run at once but all main stuff. On the side I will use the most I will manually turn off the water heater breaker on that side as it uses more than anything else when running.

 

[txtravwill]

I was under the impression you must have a Backup Gateway if you have a Powerwall installed. That Backup Gateway will disconnect the grid connection and wait 5 minutes after it senses grid power before activating that leg again. Right?

Yeah it disconnects immediately and physically on grid loss. Then use if grid returns it waits about 5 mins. Had done that in even quick power flashes or surge situations for us.

 

[llllIIlIIlIlIllII]

Someone has to say it, imo the whole powershare in the US is a load of ? ?.

Going back decades, i can count on 1 hand when i lit a candle because the lights were out. Im not going to hack/complicate my house's electrical system. Forget about actually paying for it.

It really depends where you live, I lose power quite often. But then, I installed a whole home generator and I never have to think about it again. Needless to say, but I will not be setting up power share.

 

[mongo]

A certified electrician isn't going to install it that way. That's against code. The electrician may not have completely understood your needs, or you may not have completely understood what they said.

Or, if they did, they may not be certified.
These often have to have permits puled, an inspector definitely won't allow it.

There are situations where Powerwalls are used in configurations where they provide load shedding capability, charging at night cheap electricity and discharging during the day, offsetting the expensive electricity. These are grid intertie.
If you lose power with a grid intertie solution, the Powerwall will shut down. It will not provide a backup when running a grid intertie, because of the exact reasons I'm talking about.

You are misunderstanding. OP is taking about normal safe NEC compliant installation of Gateway between meter and nlmain panel. With the downside being the need to manually load shed before activating Powershare.

Alternative being a new backed up loads panel for an additional $3k.

I recently received a PowerShare quote of over $5000. If I update it to note I already have an existing wall charger and if I set it up to just do a whole panel backup rather than a separate box, the cost goes down close to $3000 less.

Any downside to the whole panel backup? I was thinking in this scenario I could just flip the breakers I don’t want during an outage (hot tub, for example). Would it be bad for the devices in my house if the truck underpowered the full panel?

Nowhere are they talking about a setup that could back feed.

 

[davooodave]

You are misunderstanding. OP is taking about normal safe NEC compliant installation of Gateway between meter and nlmain panel. With the downside being the need to manually load shed before activating Powershare.

Alternative being a new backed up loads panel for an additional $3k.


Nowhere are they talking about a setup that could back feed.

Exactly, thanks. I’m sure others will be in a similar situation if they move forward with the installation.

 

[mongo]

Exactly, thanks. I’m sure others will be in a similar situation if they move forward with the installation.

Yah, myself included. House has 2x200A main disconnectas coming off meter that feed internal panels. One will get backed up. Other not. Will need to shift circuits around for automatic operation or add contactors to the unneed loads.

 

[flyinglow]

What is frustrating to me is that all the bi-directional inverters (Tesla, GM Energy, Ford, etc.) draw a a lot less power than the vehicle batteries should be capable of outputting - 11.5 kW in the case of Tesla. For some older homes using natural gas or propane, this might provide backup power for the whole house but is marginal even if you have a small central AC unit or electric stove and oven. To power your whole house in those cases you need to add expensive backup battery systems like the Powerwall(s) in order to increase the potential kW output to the home.

Most of the trucks can charge at 19.2 kW/80 Amps AC. I would like to see a system with a large enough inverter(s) to draw DC power from the truck's battery and output the same 80 Amps AC to the electrical panel. Unless I am mistaken the trucks should be able to output that continuously with ease.

The other issue is selling your truck's battery power to the grid. The higher the kW output, the more money you can make to offset the steep price of these vehicles. Where I am we have 5 hours of peak/4 hours of partial peak rates where we would want to send power from the truck battery to our service panel to either offset our own usage or get paid for power sent to the grid. Here is where you might want the larger batteries available in the Silverado EV and the bigger inverter in order to maximize the financial benefit. The Cybetruck's comparatively small battery limits you but, if you could output 80 Amps, you could still make the most of the peak rates.

 

[CyberGus]

Most of the trucks can charge at 19.2 kW/80 Amps AC.

What trucks charge at 80A? Only the F150 Extended Range has that, all others (including Rivian) are 48A. The Ford home backup is limited to 9.6kW.

I think you answered your own question: if you need more than the 11.5kW provided by Powershare, you need Powerwalls.

 

[scottf200]

I recently received a PowerShare quote of over $5000. If I update it to note I already have an existing wall charger and if I set it up to just do a whole panel backup rather than a separate box, the cost goes down close to $3000 less.

Any downside to the whole panel backup? I was thinking in this scenario I could just flip the breakers I don’t want during an outage (hot tub, for example). Would it be bad for the devices in my house if the truck underpowered the full panel?

I’d use that spare $2k to install a Span Panel as your main panel, would slide to to shed loads from your phone or even automate the load-shedding through the Span panel

I plan on using the Lumin Edge where you can add them to whatever circuits you want to control.

https://www.luminsmart.com/lumin-edge

Detect outage and limit power:

 

[scottf200]

Most of the trucks can charge at 19.2 kW/80 Amps AC. I would like to see a system with a large enough inverter(s) to draw DC power from the truck's battery and output the same 80 Amps AC to the electrical panel. Unless I am mistaken the trucks should be able to output that continuously with ease.

What trucks charge at 80A? Only the F150 Extended Range has that, all others (including Rivian) are 48A. The Ford home backup is limited to 9.6kW.

Is Rivian's V2H is going to be a leader in regards to power output?

• 9.6 kW 19.2 kW - Ford Charge Station Pro
• 11 kW - Rivian R2 AC V2H
• 11.5 kW - Tesla Powershare
• 24 kW - Rivian R1/R2 DC V2H

 

[flyinglow]

Is Rivian's V2H is going to be a leader in regards to power output?

• 11 kW - Rivian R2 AC V2H
• 11.5 kW - Tesla Powershare
• 19.2 kW - Ford Charge Station Pro
• 24 kW - Rivian R1/R2 DC V2H

Ford Charge Station Pro is 9.6 kW to the house. The 19.2 kW is vehicle charging. The information on Rivian's isn't clear if the 24 kW is both ways but that would be great if it is.

 

[Tedacules]

Depends where you live. In AZ my city would not allow the full load from my panel, and we were just doing the main house which is one breaker that goes to a subpanel. Main panel is the AC units and garage and small apartment. City had a problem with electric dryer and electrical oven, which I would never use during an outage. So including only half my house and no AC not approved unless removal of oven and dryer.
So I am not doing it, I really think no one knows what they are doing at this point, I think our plan was fine. I am spending my $2500 on stuff in the store for now, will deal with powershare in the future, only going to get better and cheaper.

Az has very reliable power from APS, or SRP.

 

[flyinglow]

What trucks charge at 80A? Only the F150 Extended Range has that, all others (including Rivian) are 48A. The Ford home backup is limited to 9.6kW.

I think you answered your own question: if you need more than the 11.5kW provided by Powershare, you need Powerwalls.

Lightning and Silverado can charge at 80A. Latest reports say Rivian will charge at 100 A. You'll need the charger with that spec - there are a number of them beyond the manufacturer offered ones. You also need 200A service or more to handle the 100 A breaker.

Yes, with the Tesla equipment you need Powerwalls to exceed 11.5 kW. That is my complaint. If I already have a great big truck battery, I don't want to spend the money for a home battery in addition to it. A Powerwall 3 installation is going to run you $11.500 dollars for the first one.

A Powerwall 3 can output 11.5 kW. Does that include power from the truck/the total output or will it output a combined 23 kW? I think it is the former, so you need a second Powerwall 3 if you want to exceed the 11.5 kW. If I am wrong, hopefully someone will post a link that confirms it. It isn't clear to me at this point. I need to talk to my local solar/battery people.

 

[scottf200]

The information on Rivian's isn't clear if the 24 kW is both ways but that would be great if it is.

A google search for this finds many references including one from their VP of electrical hardware:
"24 kW" Rivian DC V2H

Investor day:

Vidya Rajagopalan, senior vice president of electrical hardware at Rivian, touched on the new product during the company's Investor Day this morning.

"We will be announcing this later, but we will be offering a bidirectional charge that you can mount on the wall of your garage where you park your car," she said. The charger will work with the R1T and R1S (first and second generation) and the R2, a $45,000 EV coming in 2026.


Rajagopalan made a point to debunk a "common misconception" that "some people think we are unable to offer vehicle-to-home capability with R1, which is untrue." The R1T and R1S already offer a "DC capability and DC output, which can be exported out of the vehicle," she says, though offering an official bidirectional charger will presumably formalize the capability as a standard Rivian feature.

The charger will provide "about 24kW" of power, which is "plenty for most homes." Rajagopalan did not mention a launch date for the charger or whether it will work with both NACS and CCS ports. Rivian declined to comment.

via https://www.msn.com/en-us/lifestyle...nal-ev-charger-to-power-your-home/ar-BB1p0Jfo

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