TyPope

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I actually really think the single piece sides is possible, and will greatly reduce gaps/ color variation. I think they could do all the with one cut piece, and a brake.... Good catch!

Gosh I hope Thursday bares Cybertruck news. It's GOTTA have something..... Mrs. Greggertruck thinks they may not solely to not diminish Semi teams accomplishment. I told her I think it's all the same team. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Yeah. I hope that's not the case and that Elon has that "One more thing" moment that is better than the Q & A type answer of "We are working on it." I don't even care if he talks timing as long as he says something like "We've got the design finalized and are currently building about 30 by hand using {some kind of fancy rear end made to function the same as the eventual casting} and 4680s which we've finally got figured out."
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TyPope

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I expect the sheet metal work to be highly automated with custom machines set up for the purpose so the "awkward to handle" doesn't necessarily mean much beyond the production line would need to be set up to do it. It wouldn't necessarily take up more floor space or cost more because it would require handling and joining fewer, larger sheet metal panels vs. more smaller panels.

Also, I'm 100% sure you are correct about the front panel. I don't know who thinks the panel at the traditional grill area would open along with the hood. That's not how the design intent of this truck is structured, that forward panel is far too structural to open with the hood. Ford could do that with the lightning because all that bodywork is just deadweight carried on8 top of a heavy and frame underneath. All that weight is used in a very inefficient manner. The Cybertruck is structurally elegant, that's what makes it 200% better than the Lightning, stronger, lighter and tougher. Far less steps during manufacture too.
Right! Also, while not impossible, it may not be reasonable to expect welds to work without changing the color or shine of stainless steel. Built from one sheet, doors, trunk, and tailgate separate, the exoskeleton can be bonded to the interior structure to make one really strong body. It'll be easier to "mind the gap" when there isn't any variability in panel fitment. I just don't see a seam at the A-pillar or C-pillar working well. It'd be very visible and any gap... heaven forbid there be a gap!
 

charliemagpie

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... and now back to the topic. Now, while I REALLY don't think Tesla will make the CT out of a single piece of steel like this picture...



Cybertruck Origami.png

We can have it delivered as a flat pack.. like Ikea.
 

JBee

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Your statements strike me as trolling (as well as @jbees for that matter) so I am going to leave this thread.
Thanks for the mention.
Where was I trolling though?
Please name bridge and crime? Thx.
 

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I know this has been vastly discussed, many still believe it is.

There are several seems around the body, where 2 separate pieces meet. See below

Screen Shot 2022-11-21 at 2.19.44 PM.jpg


There's also the interior shell, the "exoskeleton" as it's been called. Same gaps on the official Tesla.com/cybertruck render, and you can see the interior stamped "exoskeleton".

1669065706128.jpeg


Now, this post is not meant to being mean, call anyone crazy, pick fights, but really - give hope.

Tell appears to be "bending" 7(at least) body panels, excluding doors.

- front right fender
- front left fender
- front bumper
- center upper rail left
- center upper rail right
- rear quarter left
- rear corner right

Obviously 4 doors, frunk lid, tail gate too, but not relevant here.

This makes for 2 very good things

1. Steel is easy to bend for Tesla, they already do it
2. They won't have to figure out some insane new technique we all think they do(bending one piece of steel to make a body)

Tesla already knows how to use AIDA equipment, they've been utilizing their tooling for years already. Their machines are quite interesting, the molds drive them selves into the punching tool, it's nearly fully automated. This machine is there, and as of today - IT IS BEING SET UP(credit JoeTegtmeyer for image)
1669066066867.png


Assuming 3 weeks to build, Tesla will "start" punching Cybertruck body components before New Year. This is probably why they're hiring for BIW positioning NOW, since 9K IDRA Giga Press hasn't landed(I'm watching, I promise..)

This was my weekend meditated thinking. Just thought I'd share here and also show the image Joe got for us today in the Stamping 2 extension area, showing the AIDA machining being set up!

My own 2 cents, I wouldn't be shocking if there is indeed some trucks in Jan at this point, demo units for cold testing and such.
contiguous?
 


HaulingAss

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Right! Also, while not impossible, it may not be reasonable to expect welds to work without changing the color or shine of stainless steel. Built from one sheet, doors, trunk, and tailgate separate, the exoskeleton can be bonded to the interior structure to make one really strong body. It'll be easier to "mind the gap" when there isn't any variability in panel fitment. I just don't see a seam at the A-pillar or C-pillar working well. It'd be very visible and any gap... heaven forbid there be a gap!
Where it is necessary to join two outer structural panels together, the weld would likely be behind a seam where it would not discolor the visible surfaces. I can't think off-hand of where this technique might be used on the Cybertruck but the edges of the joining panels can be bent at right angles creating two flanges and the weld can be done inside the bodywork about 1/2inch to prevent visible discoloration. This kind of weld on mated flanges actually strengthens the whole assembly due to the strength of the flange created. There are also welding methods that are faster and limit discoloration in the vicinity of the weld.

Myself, I would be happy with blue and yellow discoloration around welds giving my Cybertruck an industrial, utilitarian look, but that aint gonna fly with most truck buyers! :LOL:
 

firsttruck

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Maybe with the right welding technique or processes, discoloration can be avoided.

Best chance is with the proper robotic welding system.


-----------------------------------

Good vs. Bad: What You Need to Know About Colored Welds
by Ben Wiley of Wiley Metal Fabricating
https://www.wileymetal.com/good-vs-badwhat-you-need-to-know-about-colored-welds/

** Why does stainless steel change color welded? **
We view colored stainless welds as spectacularly bad. Those colors tell us chromium has migrated to the surface, leaving behind a chromium depleted region.

Stainless steel without chromium is just steel, and steel likes to rust.
So here's the bottom line: when you see colors in a stainless steel weld, or the neighboring heat affected zone, it means the corrosion resistance has been reduced in that area.

.....
Causes and Prevention
Color in welds are often called a “heat tint” but that’s a bit of a misnomer although temperature does play a part. Around the weld pool a shielding gas excludes air to prevent oxidization. However, a hotter weld has a larger weld pool and needs longer to cool down. In this situation it’s possible the welder has advanced the torch before the pool has completely solidified, so letting oxygen in.

Another factor is the shielding gas itself. If it doesn’t completely exclude oxygen from the weld pool you’re going to get oxidization. That might happen if there’s a lot of turbulence in the gas stream, which is why some welders use a “lens” that “focuses” the gas onto the weld.


-----------------------------------


How to avoid colouration of a weld?
By AXXAIR Orbital Technology (France)
https://www.axxair.com/en/blog/-how-to-avoid-colouration-of-a-weld

.....
3. If you wish to avoid any colouration of the weld: To begin with, you will use an adapted backing gas, generally argon with a purity index above 99.99% in order to remove all oxygen near to the root of the weld pool. This gas has to be as dry as possible, in order to avoid a small quantity of moisture that might decompose into oxygen and thus create a colouration. This first option is even more important if the basic material is very expensive or if the geometry and the surface conditions do not allow a repair weld. You can also add an oxygen meter that will inform you about the quantity of oxygen in the shielding gas. In the case of a programmed level indicated on the oxygen meter you can weld whilst controlling the colouration.

4. Sometimes a coloration is tolerated: On the other hand, for certain applications, coloration of a weld can be accepted if this weld default is corrected afterwards. In this case you will have to strip the welding surface by mechanical or chemical means, and to re-passivate chemically afterwards by immersion or spraying of nitric acid, enabling the repair of the protection film. But bear in mind that this is an additional operation that you will have to accomplish and sometimes the results are not better than the first option.

Conclusion: In order to control the colouration and the labour costs (which is the highest cost of a welding operation), it can be interesting to control the shielding gas (pre-gas and backing gas) by a precise control of the shielding parameters. If you wish to obtain high purity welds on thin tubes for a serial production, the use of a closed weld head will allow you to obtain welds without coloration. This is due to the pre-gas and backing gas in the weld chamber that surrounds the tube. Once again: the pre-fabrication of a weld is of the utmost importance. Don't hesitate to contact us to talk about your project.


-----------------------------------


Why Do Weld Joints Fail? Polymer Solutions News Team October 27, 2015
https://www.polymersolutions.com/blog/why-do-weld-joints-fail/

.....
4. An additional bad boy of weld joints is oxidation, as oxides can prevent a good weld from forming. Hot metals like to oxidize, and metal must get very hot to form a proper weld joint. The common approach to preventing oxidation from occurring is using a “shield” gas, which is a non-oxidizing gas such as Argon that is introduced into the welding area. This shield gas prevents oxygen from being present when the metal is heated, thus preventing oxidation. Another way to prevent oxidation is to use a rod with carbon inside (called a flux). The carbon in the flux preferentially bonds with the oxygen before the metal does and prevents oxidation.


-----------------------------------


8 Improvements to Your Stainless Steel TIG Welding
Last Updated on Sep 07 2022
https://waterwelders.com/improvements-to-your-stainless-steel-tig-welding/

.....
4. Increase Gas Coverage
Any air that gets into welds will produce impurities in the bead and can change the color of your stainless steel. The more gas you use, within economic reason, the tidier your weld will be. This is not just more gas flow. A wider cup to produce a broader coverage of gas will make a significant difference to your welds.


7. Back Purge Your Job
Back purging a weld is the process of keeping the backside of your weld in an environment shielded from air. You can achieve this through a purging kit or by covering the backside of your joint with aluminum wrap and a shielding gas line feeding into it. The oxidation that occurs from the underside of your joint being exposed to air not only causes an ugly look behind your weld, but affects the way your weld runs. Back purging your weld will ensure your bead is formed more smoothly, and it keeps the color and deformation out of both sides of your joint.

8. Let Your Project Cool
Stainless steel grows and warps excessively from heat. It also forms the red, blue, and black coloring you’re familiar with on welds. The coloring is all from excess heat. Welding will always need heat, otherwise the metals won’t weld together, but the heat on stainless steel is from the job heating up more than it needs to.

-----------------------------------


Avoiding heat-tint during welding of stainless steels
https://www.twi-global.com/technica...i-avoid-it-during-welding-of-stainless-steels


-----------------------------------
 
Last edited:

TyPope

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Okay. Seems seams shouldn't be too much of an issue with welding the stainless steel. I suppose it also won't be an issue welding the 3mm outer shell to the most likely thinner pre-primed non-stainless steel of the support structure/interior. At least, I believe that the interior unibody will be regular steel and will require a coating to prevent rusting. Perhaps Tesla could use stainless. Wouldn't it be a hoot if they cast the entire interior structure even if they had to do it in several cast parts?
 

firsttruck

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Okay. Seems seams shouldn't be too much of an issue with welding the stainless steel. I suppose it also won't be an issue welding the 3mm outer shell to the most likely thinner pre-primed non-stainless steel of the support structure/interior. At least, I believe that the interior unibody will be regular steel and will require a coating to prevent rusting. Perhaps Tesla could use stainless. Wouldn't it be a hoot if they cast the entire interior structure even if they had to do it in several cast parts?
The interior might be stamped from 1mm-2mm hot-rolled stainless steel.
 


TyPope

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The Delorean welds still show through though. I do agree that using stainless steel throughout would avoid any dissimilar metal corrosion though... Something we always looked out for on F-15s back in the day when they were the new hotness.
 

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Maybe with the right welding technique or processes, discoloration can be avoided.

Best chance is with the proper robotic welding system.


-----------------------------------

Good vs. Bad: What You Need to Know About Colored Welds
by Ben Wiley of Wiley Metal Fabricating
https://www.wileymetal.com/good-vs-badwhat-you-need-to-know-about-colored-welds/

** Why does stainless steel change color welded? **
We view colored stainless welds as spectacularly bad. Those colors tell us chromium has migrated to the surface, leaving behind a chromium depleted region.

Stainless steel without chromium is just steel, and steel likes to rust.
So here's the bottom line: when you see colors in a stainless steel weld, or the neighboring heat affected zone, it means the corrosion resistance has been reduced in that area.

.....
Causes and Prevention
Color in welds are often called a “heat tint” but that’s a bit of a misnomer although temperature does play a part. Around the weld pool a shielding gas excludes air to prevent oxidization. However, a hotter weld has a larger weld pool and needs longer to cool down. In this situation it’s possible the welder has advanced the torch before the pool has completely solidified, so letting oxygen in.

Another factor is the shielding gas itself. If it doesn’t completely exclude oxygen from the weld pool you’re going to get oxidization. That might happen if there’s a lot of turbulence in the gas stream, which is why some welders use a “lens” that “focuses” the gas onto the weld.


-----------------------------------


How to avoid colouration of a weld?
By AXXAIR Orbital Technology (France)
https://www.axxair.com/en/blog/-how-to-avoid-colouration-of-a-weld

.....
3. If you wish to avoid any colouration of the weld: To begin with, you will use an adapted backing gas, generally argon with a purity index above 99.99% in order to remove all oxygen near to the root of the weld pool. This gas has to be as dry as possible, in order to avoid a small quantity of moisture that might decompose into oxygen and thus create a colouration. This first option is even more important if the basic material is very expensive or if the geometry and the surface conditions do not allow a repair weld. You can also add an oxygen meter that will inform you about the quantity of oxygen in the shielding gas. In the case of a programmed level indicated on the oxygen meter you can weld whilst controlling the colouration.

4. Sometimes a coloration is tolerated: On the other hand, for certain applications, coloration of a weld can be accepted if this weld default is corrected afterwards. In this case you will have to strip the welding surface by mechanical or chemical means, and to re-passivate chemically afterwards by immersion or spraying of nitric acid, enabling the repair of the protection film. But bear in mind that this is an additional operation that you will have to accomplish and sometimes the results are not better than the first option.

Conclusion: In order to control the colouration and the labour costs (which is the highest cost of a welding operation), it can be interesting to control the shielding gas (pre-gas and backing gas) by a precise control of the shielding parameters. If you wish to obtain high purity welds on thin tubes for a serial production, the use of a closed weld head will allow you to obtain welds without coloration. This is due to the pre-gas and backing gas in the weld chamber that surrounds the tube. Once again: the pre-fabrication of a weld is of the utmost importance. Don't hesitate to contact us to talk about your project.


-----------------------------------


Why Do Weld Joints Fail? Polymer Solutions News Team October 27, 2015
https://www.polymersolutions.com/blog/why-do-weld-joints-fail/

.....
4. An additional bad boy of weld joints is oxidation, as oxides can prevent a good weld from forming. Hot metals like to oxidize, and metal must get very hot to form a proper weld joint. The common approach to preventing oxidation from occurring is using a “shield” gas, which is a non-oxidizing gas such as Argon that is introduced into the welding area. This shield gas prevents oxygen from being present when the metal is heated, thus preventing oxidation. Another way to prevent oxidation is to use a rod with carbon inside (called a flux). The carbon in the flux preferentially bonds with the oxygen before the metal does and prevents oxidation.


-----------------------------------


8 Improvements to Your Stainless Steel TIG Welding
Last Updated on Sep 07 2022
https://waterwelders.com/improvements-to-your-stainless-steel-tig-welding/

.....
4. Increase Gas Coverage
Any air that gets into welds will produce impurities in the bead and can change the color of your stainless steel. The more gas you use, within economic reason, the tidier your weld will be. This is not just more gas flow. A wider cup to produce a broader coverage of gas will make a significant difference to your welds.


7. Back Purge Your Job
Back purging a weld is the process of keeping the backside of your weld in an environment shielded from air. You can achieve this through a purging kit or by covering the backside of your joint with aluminum wrap and a shielding gas line feeding into it. The oxidation that occurs from the underside of your joint being exposed to air not only causes an ugly look behind your weld, but affects the way your weld runs. Back purging your weld will ensure your bead is formed more smoothly, and it keeps the color and deformation out of both sides of your joint.

8. Let Your Project Cool
Stainless steel grows and warps excessively from heat. It also forms the red, blue, and black coloring you’re familiar with on welds. The coloring is all from excess heat. Welding will always need heat, otherwise the metals won’t weld together, but the heat on stainless steel is from the job heating up more than it needs to.

-----------------------------------


Avoiding heat-tint during welding of stainless steels
https://www.twi-global.com/technica...i-avoid-it-during-welding-of-stainless-steels


-----------------------------------
robotic welding is done where folks are kept out. It could be possible to do the welding in an O2 free environment to prevent discoloration on the far side (cosmetic side) of the welds. An airlock chamber would be required but without pressurization or just a few Pa above atmospheric pressure would ensure an O2 free environment.

Many years ago we stored printed circuit boards in a box with a small flow of N2 to prevent oxidation of the tin-lead traces. This led to better results when soldering components.
 

JBee

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Looks like the structure of the CT, according to the latest photos on the line at Giga Texas, are not "exoskeleton" after all...hmmm some of have been saying that for a while now?
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