Rivian Rollover

[SwampNut]

A vehicle is an inanimate object.. it cant decide to do anything..

So you don't think that Teslas make decisions? What would you call it?

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[Ehninger1212]

So you don't think that Teslas make decisions? What would you call it?

I think Tesla is closest to having a vehicle that truly thinks for itself. But it does not do that 100% at this moment. Ai is able to use informative inputs to make predictive decisions. But it is not aware of what it is doing.

We are talking about a Rivian mind you.

The truck did not decide to do anything.

Edit: The more I ponder this, the more I see that the word think and decisions are blending together in my brain. While I still do not agree with the statement that the Rivian "decided to roll over". I do see how Tesla's and a few other auto makers have vehicles that can make decisions. But i highly doubt any of those decisions would be to roll over.

 

[Ogre]

Computers make decisions too. They are just mostly pre-determined. If X then Y.

AI muddies the water a bit, but even with an AI (or arguably a human), outcome is predetermined. But there is a decision process there.

In this case, the truck wasn’t programmed to do anything. It decided to let the human do the dangerous thing.

 

[SwampNut]

And there are multiple gradients of X-Y. My Jeeps have had various levels of idiot prevention, which are tunable with the off road settings menu. It would make different "decisions" if I was in highway mode, or in light trail mode, or hard core mode. I could be increasingly stupid as it progressed.

 

[Crissa]

A vehicle is an inanimate object.. it cant decide to do anything..

In this case, it's automated, so, it can decide to do things.

But the rolling over part was figurative, not literal, decribing the probability cloud of overturning as a decision point.

-Crissa

 

[Ehninger1212]

In this case, it's automated, so, it can decide to do things.

But the rolling over part was figurative, not literal, decribing the probability cloud of overturning as a decision point.

-Crissa

Yes I know it was figurative. But based on my joke reply which was taken literally it turned into a debate.

 

[Ogre]

Yes I know it was figurative. But based on my joke reply which was taken literally it turned into a debate.

It’s so uncommon for humor to be misunderstood on the internet though.

This might be the first time ever. I’ll have to research it.

 

[GlockandRoll]

The Cybertruck will have little in common with the bad handling characteristics of gasoline powered 4x4's and will be much harder to roll. Any vehicle can roll when given the right conditions and inputs, but some are much less inclined than others.

"Handling characteristics" will have little to do with off-road rollover when the front digs in while turning and dramatic oversteer is introduced.

That's how vehicles roll over off-road, it's widespread and is one of the main reasons 4X4s carry a higher insurance premium. I was a passenger in an F150 that rolled over in a field like this because as soon as we turned, while moving at a pretty decent speed, the passenger side front wheel sank in and it introduced dramatic oversteer and roll at the same time.

It had nothing to do with handling characteristics, it was physics in motion.

 

[Ehninger1212]

It’s so uncommon for humor to be misunderstood on the internet though.

This might be the first time ever. I’ll have to research it.

I'm already on the phone with Guinness. I think we've got something here.

 

[Crissa]

I was a passenger in an F150 that rolled over in a field like this because as soon as we turned, while moving at a pretty decent speed, the passenger side front wheel sank in and it introduced dramatic oversteer and roll at the same time.

It had nothing to do with handling characteristics, it was physics in motion.

That's literally handling characteristics. With lower center of gravity, it takes more energy to roll when the tire gets too much traction.

It would take more speed to roll my Mazda than that truck because of handling characteristics, which is why rally driving prefers small, balanced cars.

-Crissa

 

[SwampNut]

Yes I know it was figurative. But based on my joke reply which was taken literally it turned into a debate.

Actually I wanted to explore it as a possible decision point. It's not out of the question, and the car can make decisions. As I said, my Jeeps did, but at some point, they'd probably stop trying? Go outside their parameters? Dunno. I slid down a hill once with the "decent cruise control" working full time and it felt like at the bottom it totally gave up. Luckily I was also doing a little manual braking anyway.

 

[Ehninger1212]

Actually I wanted to explore it as a possible decision point. It's not out of the question, and the car can make decisions. As I said, my Jeeps did, but at some point, they'd probably stop trying? Go outside their parameters? Dunno. I slid down a hill once with the "decent cruise control" working full time and it felt like at the bottom it totally gave up. Luckily I was also doing a little manual braking anyway.

Yeah I get it, when I think of the word "Decision" I think of it as a conscious thought creating a reaction, Like a human. My thought process is incorrect on this though. In a vehicle or machines case it is more of a built in predetermined "Decision" based on parameters within the vehicles control system/computers. ABC input produces XYZ output.

This does have it limits... for now... My 05 land rover rover was one of the pioneers of this tech "Terrain response", So I know the feelings you are talking about.. at some point it seems like we push the vehicles beyond the point of trying to make "decisions".

What is really cool to theorize is how FSD and Tesla's AI systems might actually be able to learn how power through sloppy mud, sand and traverse up larger boulders better each time?!?

 

[SwampNut]

What is really cool to theorize is how FSD and Tesla's AI systems might actually be able to learn how power through sloppy mud, sand and traverse up larger boulders better each time?!?

You also just gave me a new nightmare. I've seen where FSD/AP fail in extreme conditions, pretty abruptly, and wouldn't want that on the side of a cliff when there's a mixed loose-over-hard boulder to climb to safety.

 

[HaulingAss]

"Handling characteristics" will have little to do with off-road rollover when the front digs in while turning and dramatic oversteer is introduced.

That's how vehicles roll over off-road, it's widespread and is one of the main reasons 4X4s carry a higher insurance premium. I was a passenger in an F150 that rolled over in a field like this because as soon as we turned, while moving at a pretty decent speed, the passenger side front wheel sank in and it introduced dramatic oversteer and roll at the same time.

It had nothing to do with handling characteristics, it was physics in motion.

I'll re-phrase:

The physics of the handling dynamics of a Cybertruck will be vastly different from those of a gas powered 4x4 due to the dramatically lower center of gravity that is also more centralized. Yes, I consider roll-over dynamics part of handling characteristics.

It's surprising that you're pushing back on these simple concepts. I thought everyone knew about the roll-over advantages conferred by having a lower center of gravity and no heavy engine up high under the hood.

 

[Crissa]

You also just gave me a new nightmare. I've seen where FSD/AP fail in extreme conditions, pretty abruptly, and wouldn't want that on the side of a cliff when there's a mixed loose-over-hard boulder to climb to safety.

How is that different than your buddy driving?

-Crissa

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