Rivian Rollover

[Sirfun]

Yes, and a good reminder to only use as much suspension height as needed for the situation. I've seen lifted trucks roll over very easily while stock trucks do the same kind of obstacles like it was child's play.

Your comment reminded me of a video TFL put out a couple of weeks ago when they took the Hummer EV to Moab. The Hummer wasn't allowing them to go to full height, and they were trying to change settings to go to full height adjustment for rock crawling obstacles. Maybe GM is trying to avoid tipping over one of their white cows. Or is it a white elephant.

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[John K]

What maximum speed would be considered safe on this terrain?

while intrigued at the cause of the accident, lack of data means guessing at probable causes.

 

[HaulingAss]

What maximum speed would be considered safe on this terrain?

I would like to think common sense of the person actually in each situation would provide the answer. But we have photographic proof that is not the case.

 

[Ogre]

What maximum speed would be considered safe on this terrain?

while intrigued at the cause of the accident, lack of data means guessing at probable causes.

One thing is certain. Whatever speed this guy was going exceeded the maximum safe speed for that terrain.

 

[swengl]

I am not concerned about the CyberTruck having a roll over problem. The Rivian has a fairly narrow body and at the highest suspension settings, I'm sure it would be more prone to rollover. The CT will be much wider than the Rivian. I was a bit surprised at how dainty the R1T was when I first saw one in person. Maybe the guy accidentally engaged "turtle" mode instead of "tank" mode?

 

[firsttruck]

Idc who you are.. vehicles don't just randomly decide to roll over..

I will chalk this one down as user error.

This R1T example was probably user error.

BUT it is not true that vehicles don't just randomly decide to roll over. Some do.
Very low probability with standard sedans but there is a measurably greater risk with vehicles that have high CGs like SUVs, vans and pickups.

One of the common random triggers is a tire blowout.
Even brand new, not defectively designed or under-inflate tires can blowout.

Even in an suburan or urban environment, SUVs that slides sideways on patch of ice hits a curb and the SUV rolls over or is involved in an accident where the SUV slides sideways hits a curb and the SUV rolls over.

There was a infamous series involving Ford Explorer & many badly made Firestone tires but the point here is that some vehicles are more susceptible to rollovers than others.

There is a reason many governments mandate a minimum specification for roof crush.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) reports that some 78,000 accidents occur every year due to tire failures.

NHTSA states that “more than 10,000 people a year are killed in rollover crashes.” They account for 33 percent of all passenger vehicle fatalities.

A 2012 NHTSA sample study of 5,470 car crashes found that SUVs were the most likely type of vehicle to be involved in a rollover.

In fact, nearly half (45%) of SUVs with pre-crash tire issues rolled over. By contrast, cars, pickup trucks, and vans with pre-crash tire issues rolled over less than 25% of the time.


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Firestone and Ford tire controversy of the 1990s saw hundreds of people die in automobile crashes caused by the failure of Firestone tires installed on light trucks made by Ford
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firestone_and_Ford_tire_controversy

Police: Tire blowout caused rollover on I-95 in Stratford
Ford Econoline E250 van, in the center of three lanes when the rear passenger-side tire blew out, the report said. When the tire blew out, the report said, the driver lost control over the van, which then “rolled over onto its roof and came to a final rest in the center lane.”
By Tara O'Neill Oct. 1, 2020
https://www.ctpost.com/policereport...owout-caused-rollover-on-I-95-in-15612843.php

Tire blowout, rollover leaves one dead in Martin County
A Fort Pierce man died after the tire on his SUV blew out and he veered off Interstate 95
By Mauricio La Plante, Treasure Coast Newspapers
January 4, 2022
https://news.yahoo.com/tire-blowout-rollover-leaves-one-185714734.html

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Buying A Safer Car 2010 Valuable Information on Crash Tests, Rollover Ratings, and Safety Features
DOT HS 811 359
July 2010
https://tntrafficsafety.org/sites/default/files/buycar.pdf

.....
Electronic Stability Control (ESC),
Based on a NHTSA study of US crash data, NHTSA estimates equipping vehicles with ESC will reduce single-vehicle crashes of passenger cars by 26 percent and single-vehicle crashes of SUVs by 48 percent Preventing single-vehicle loss-of-control crashes is the most effective way to reduce deaths resulting from rollover crashes NHTSA estimates that ESC has the potential to prevent 64 percent of passenger car rollovers and 85 percent of SUV rollovers in single-vehicle crashes The same NHTSA study also found a reduction in certain multi-vehicle crashes involving SUVs

For these reasons, NHTSA recently issued a new Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS No 126) to require ESC systems on passenger cars, multipurpose passenger vehicles, trucks, and buses

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[Crissa]

Notice they use sand, because an inconsistent surface like an old field with holes and rocks would give inconsistent results.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

At one point, Musk said something about the air suspension playing a part in increasing turning performance. While I could see having the truck lean away from the roll being super helpful, I’m struggling to see how they could deploy it quickly enough to make a difference in a situation like this.

The time between entering a sharp turn or getting sideways, and rolling is likely less than half a second. It would take too much time to move enough air to affect this. Though maybe there are other levers they could pull. Some shocks can be adjusted quickly using magnetism. If the shocks were stiffened on the outside as the sideways motion were applied Maybe?

(Just thinking out loud here)

Aside from that, the biggest thing is to never drive with the truck in a higher than needed suspension mode.

 

[Ogre]

Your comment reminded me of a video TFL put out a couple of weeks ago when they took the Hummer EV to Moab. The Hummer wasn't allowing them to go to full height, and they were trying to change settings to go to full height adjustment for rock crawling obstacles. Maybe GM is trying to avoid tipping over one of their white cows. Or is it a white elephant.

So the truck gets 16”+ of ground clearance on flat ground, but when things get steeper, it’s limited to much less than that. Safer… but self defeating. Also very consistent with GM’s appearances first mentality with this vehicle.

 

[Crissa]

So the truck gets 16”+ of ground clearance on flat ground, but when things get steeper, it’s limited to much less than that. Safer… but self defeating. Also very consistent with GM’s appearances first mentality with this vehicle.

Not really, you're always using up that clearance on uneven surfaces.

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

Not really, you're always using up that clearance on uneven surfaces.

-Crissa

I think someone who pays $110k+ for the mother of all off-road vehicles is going to be disappointed they find out they can only get that 16” of travel on grades less than 20% (Or whatever arbitrary number it is).

Maybe if they called it the desert runner and only charged $80k for it.

 

[firsttruck]

This is really for ICE SUVs because of their high center of gravity (CoG).
Not Tesla EV SUVs which have very low center of gravity (CoG) that is lower than many ICE sedans.

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Rollover - The Hidden History of the SUV | FRONTLINE | PBS
FRONTLINE Program
Airdate: February 21, 2002
WRITTEN, PRODUCED AND DIRECTED BY Barak Goodman & Marc Shaffer
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/

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Unsafe On Any Tire? - Perception Vs. Reality | Rollover | FRONTLINE | PBS
Perception vs. Reality: suvs and safety
People in SUVs may feel safer, but does the public really understand the risks that SUVs pose to their own drivers and passengers.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/rollover/unsafe/theme.html

.....
Everybody is focusing on the tragic deaths involving Firestone tires. ... But we are ignoring the elephant in the tent, which is the much broader problem created by sport utility vehicles, not just the Explorer. ...

Let me put that in a broader context. Surveys have found that most people don't realize how big a problem rollovers are. Even though they are about half a percent or so of all crashes, they are a huge part of traffic deaths. About 41,000 Americans a year are killed on the nation's roads. Eleven thousand of those deaths take place in rollovers; and about 1,900 of those 11,000 are in sport utility vehicles. That's about double the number of deaths you would expect, given the proportion of vehicles on the road that are sport utility vehicles. ...

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Blown tire causes SUV to roll over on Highway 111 in Palm Springs
Jul 26, 2022
KESQ News Channel 3

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Best performers was 20 year old Citroen Xantia with active suspension.
Tesla Model X was also good.

A lot of other cars, SUVs, pickup were not so good.

Why New Cars Keep FAILING the Moose Test Driven Media
2021

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Citroën Xantia Activa (1995-2001) - Maniobra de esquiva (Moose test) y eslalon | km77.com

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[Crissa]

I think someone who pays $110k+ for the mother of all off-road vehicles is going to be disappointed they find out they can only get that 16” of travel on grades less than 20% (Or whatever arbitrary number it is).

Maybe if they called it the desert runner and only charged $80k for it.

They're still getting it on the other side!

Nanny computers... Truck says 'hey, I don't think this is safe' and driver says 'sure, I should ruin be able to tell my quarter million dollar truck to ruin itself!'

-Crissa

 

[Ogre]

They're still getting it on the other side!

Nanny computers... Truck says 'hey, I don't think this is safe' and driver says 'sure, I should ruin be able to tell my quarter million dollar truck to ruin itself!'

-Crissa

The truck computer is always going to err on the side of caution. People who off-road want to push their limits.

 

[Crissa]

The truck computer is always going to err on the side of caution. People who off-road want to push their limits.

"Sorry Dave, I do not want to roll over."

-Some future Hummer, probably.

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