Round or square? Buttons or stalks?

[charliemagpie]

I have convinced myself hand gesture will be a thing.

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[flowerlandfilms]

 

[Setok]

This example is frequently used but doesn’t work. You don’t use your phone in critical, potentially lethal, situations where your focus needs to be elsewhere. At least I hope you don’t. When people do use their phone in those situations, major accidents happen.

 

[ninja6r]

If autoshift works well, make it an option on a software update on all vehicles. See how many people turn it on then back off.

Can't wait for the first person who crashes into a building/person/car and blames autoshift.

 

[PilotPete]

This example is frequently used but doesn’t work. You don’t use your phone in critical, potentially lethal, situations where your focus needs to be elsewhere. At least I hope you don’t. When people do use their phone in those situations, major accidents happen.

I can't imagine any time I'd need to change gears in an emergency to avoid a major accident. Also, any maneuvering I'm doing to avoid a major accident is done without signals, stalks or not. I drive rental cars all the time. The transmissions are all different. Heck, I rent a M3 and the transmission isn't where it is on EVERY OTHER rental car I drive. But guess what, I adapt. Sometimes I look down and check. In my BMW, the shift is on the center console, Park is a button, Reverse is pushing the lever forward. Yep, to go backward, push forward. To go forward, pull it backward. Makes sense? Guess what, I adapt. I rent a Tesla, I don't instinctively grab my phone to shift. (think about it) I reach up, look at the stalk, try and read which way to move the stalk to get the direction I want to go. How different is that from moving my hand 6 inches (or 152mm) to the right and making a hand gesture in the same direction I want to go??? I'd argue THAT is easier and more intuitive. And if you want to talk safety, then mandate that all cars activate cruise control the same. Because with cruise control, you are hurtling through space at high speed with cars all around you. But none of them are the same, and you've got to look down and figure out where the dang "set" and "resume" switches/buttons/stalks are and which way you gotta move them to make it do what you want. And when you do, DAMMIT! I just changed the radio volume!

 

[EVSport7]

I can't imagine any time I'd need to change gears in an emergency to avoid a major accident. Also, any maneuvering I'm doing to avoid a major accident is done without signals, stalks or not. I drive rental cars all the time. The transmissions are all different. Heck, I rent a M3 and the transmission isn't where it is on EVERY OTHER rental car I drive. But guess what, I adapt. Sometimes I look down and check. In my BMW, the shift is on the center console, Park is a button, Reverse is pushing the lever forward. Yep, to go backward, push forward. To go forward, pull it backward. Makes sense? Guess what, I adapt. I rent a Tesla, I don't instinctively grab my phone to shift. (think about it) I reach up, look at the stalk, try and read which way to move the stalk to get the direction I want to go. How different is that from moving my hand 6 inches (or 152mm) to the right and making a hand gesture in the same direction I want to go??? I'd argue THAT is easier and more intuitive. And if you want to talk safety, then mandate that all cars activate cruise control the same. Because with cruise control, you are hurtling through space at high speed with cars all around you. But none of them are the same, and you've got to look down and figure out where the dang "set" and "resume" switches/buttons/stalks are and which way you gotta move them to make it do what you want. And when you do, DAMMIT! I just changed the radio volume!

Honestly, the only thing that comes to mind is like a cheesy movie where you have to drive away from a hurricane or volcano haha.
Otherwise I just don't see this being a huge deal for 99% of use cases

 

[wtibbit]

This is some light diversion while we wait for the meal to be served...

Pragmatically, it doesn't matter what we want among those choices. What we'll get is what Tesla is planning to offer.

Locations of switches and controls are almost certainly a done deal and very unlikely to be altered. Wishing and whining will not be change this, but maybe it makes some feel better.

Options for wheels are possible and maybe even likely; if so, I think the choices will be the classic round or the square.

 

[CYBRSMTH]

Did Tesla make a mistake with getting rid of the round steering wheel and stalks on some of their products? We saw the backtrack on the yoke for model s/x but the stalks did not make a return yet. Now that Model 3 Refresh 'Highland' is releasing without stalks, there will be a larger audience to pass judgment.

For cybertruck, I see no benefit to a square steering wheel or yoke with no stalks. There is no drive focused display and FSD is not fully autonomous yet. These changes to driving controls are not going to drive new customers but it will turn off many traditional truck buyers.

I agree, but I think Tesla, like Apple, will start removing things before they have a proper solution to replace them (removal of CD-ROM drive, removal of home button, eventual removal of charging port, etc.) I’m not sure if they do this to spur innovation, or what.

 

[Setok]

Unfortunately it’s not that simple. The stalk is now two buttons that move with the wheel. 15 minutes in Europe is all it takes to realise how terrible an idea that is as you try and aimlessly search for the buttons, and figure out which way round they are, while traversing a roundabout.

And then you get to contend with the lack of direction stalk for parallel parking, 3 point turns, or wiggling back and forth to get out of snow.

To take the phone example though: physical buttons are arguably better for typing than not (otherwise why does every single laptop have a physical keyboard), but physical buttons take up space which a phone doesn’t have. So it’s always a compromise. Apple decided on removing buttons virtually completely to maximise screen estate, which makes browsing much more usable. It was a bet that paid off. Physical space is not at a great premium in a car. Removing the stalks provides no benefit to the driver. It’s purely a principled or cost cutting decision by Tesla (probably by Elon himself), not something that aims to provide a better experience. Indeed it’s an inferior experience.

 

[Setok]

I can't imagine any time I'd need to change gears in an emergency to avoid a major accident. Also, any maneuvering I'm doing to avoid a major accident is done without signals, stalks or not. I drive rental cars all the time. The transmissions are all different. Heck, I rent a M3 and the transmission isn't where it is on EVERY OTHER rental car I drive. But guess what, I adapt. Sometimes I look down and check. In my BMW, the shift is on the center console, Park is a button, Reverse is pushing the lever forward. Yep, to go backward, push forward. To go forward, pull it backward. Makes sense? Guess what, I adapt. I rent a Tesla, I don't instinctively grab my phone to shift. (think about it) I reach up, look at the stalk, try and read which way to move the stalk to get the direction I want to go. How different is that from moving my hand 6 inches (or 152mm) to the right and making a hand gesture in the same direction I want to go??? I'd argue THAT is easier and more intuitive. And if you want to talk safety, then mandate that all cars activate cruise control the same. Because with cruise control, you are hurtling through space at high speed with cars all around you. But none of them are the same, and you've got to look down and figure out where the dang "set" and "resume" switches/buttons/stalks are and which way you gotta move them to make it do what you want. And when you do, DAMMIT! I just changed the radio volume!

You’re ignoring the whole case of indicator stalks. But even with the direction selector there are critical situations where directions needs to be changed quickly. Someone recently posted about needing to rapidly reverse our if the way of another car. I’ve been there myself. That is way, way easier to do with a physical control (it doesn’t have to be a stalk, but that’s what Tesla has historically used). Tactile feel is important, that’s why VW changed tact and is moving away from touch controls.

 

[Setok]

This is some light diversion while we wait for the meal to be served...

Pragmatically, it doesn't matter what we want among those choices. What we'll get is what Tesla is planning to offer.

Locations of switches and controls are almost certainly a done deal and very unlikely to be altered. Wishing and whining will not be change this, but maybe it makes some feel better.

Options for wheels are possible and maybe even likely; if so, I think the choices will be the classic round or the square.

With enough whining Tesla thankfully dropped the yoke. It seems sometimes they listen. Besides, what else are you supposed to do on a forum than discuss the ups and downs of the topic at hand?

 

[PilotPete]

You’re ignoring the whole case of indicator stalks. But even with the direction selector there are critical situations where directions needs to be changed quickly. Someone recently posted about needing to rapidly reverse our if the way of another car. I’ve been there myself. That is way, way easier to do with a physical control (it doesn’t have to be a stalk, but that’s what Tesla has historically used). Tactile feel is important, that’s why VW changed tact and is moving away from touch controls.

If you want to, you will adapt to the indicators. As for change of direction, again, with the lack of standardization amongst the manufacturers and models, I don't see it. Like I said, I think the screen swipe is MORE intuitive than all the different options. Ever drive a manual? Tell me, where is reverse on a manual transmission??? Left and up on this one, left and down on that one, right and up over here, right and down over there. But when you own the car, you know because you do it so often. The swipe will probably come to the same level of memory. For "real" buttons, come on. Comparing a keyboard to a phone or a car? When was the last time you typed 120 words per minute changing lanes? And IF you bother to listen to the M3+ reviews, every single one I've watched as said the feedback is so good, they can't tell if it is a real button or not. There's your feedback. And after a drive or two you will know where the buttons are, and commit them to unconscious memory. And Europe ain't that special for driving. Sorry, but everyone thinks it's better/harder/special where they are. "You don't understand what it is like here" is EVERYONE'S excuse. Well, I've spent more days in Europe this summer than home. Yes, it is different (especially where they drive on the other side), but guess what, you adapt. Do I have to think more in the UK? Yep, but I've never been at risk of a head on because I doula't figure it out. And guess what, the US has roundabouts too! Really! In fact some cities pride themselves on using it as their new standard intersection!

IF you want and try, you WILL adapt and create a new norm. If not, you're just stubborn.

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