firsttruck

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Nice first post!

Unless I‘m misunderstanding what hot forming is, it seems likely Tesla would use this for all of their vehicles so it would make sense they would send engineers to training on the topic.

I’m not sure how hot forming affects the hardness on stainless.
I am still searching for info but I don't think you do hot forming on cold-rolled stainless steel.

Might use hot forming on any non-colded-rolled stainless steel used for parts going into interior (door jambs, interiors side of A/B/C pillars ) or for underbody.
 
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SpaceYooper

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I am still searching for info but I don't think you do hot forming on cold-rolled stainless steel.

Might use hot forming on any non-colded-rolled stainless steel used for part going into interior (door jambs, interiors side of A/B/C pillars ) or for underbody.
Don't search long. The answer to that question lies in the first 15 seconds of the video that was posted by @hridge2020
 

firsttruck

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Don't search long. The answer to that question lies in the first 15 seconds of the video that was posted by @hridge2020
I had already found and viewed the video @hridge2020 posted before it was posted to the forum.

Yes, you can use cold-rolled steel in the hot forming process but I was concerned the steel might lose one of the features cold-rolling gave us and I think we wanted.

Hardness.

Heating cold-rolled steel to the temps required for hot forming might soften the steel while it increases duct-ability.

A reduction in hardness might reduce dent-resistance & scratch resistance.

All of this can get complicated. It may also vary based on specific steel alloy used like: regular steel, high strength steel, boron steel, nickel-free stainless steel, stainless steel (304 vs 316 vs 405, etc), hot-rolled, cold-rolled, etc.
 

John K

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Not a dig on OP, I just find the singular instead of plural reference in the title humorous. As most know, I am no stranger to typos, apple’s cursed autocorrect and fragmented thoughts.

That will be one busy employee if he is the only one trained for hot stamping.

Welcome to the forum.
 

firsttruck

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Not a dig on OP, I just find the singular instead of plural reference in the title humorous. As most know, I am no stranger to typos, apple’s cursed autocorrect and fragmented thoughts.

That will be one busy employee if he is the only one trained for hot stamping.

Welcome to the forum.

My question is will there also be people with decades of experience in hot stamping.

Elon & Tesla have done great things and implemented many new innovations but there have been places where problems could have been avoided too ( Model 3 chassis, paint shop, panel gaps).

Not all oldsters are ossified. In speeding the EV transition, Sandy Munro, myself and others might be helpful too :) .
 

firsttruck

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Ductility is the ability of a metal to deform without fracturing. Metals that can be formed or pressed into another shape without any fracturing.

--------------------------------

Comparisons of hot and cold formed stainless steel
11 May 2021
https://www.assda.asn.au/blog/331-comparisons-of-hot-and-cold-formed-stainless-steel

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Difference Between Annealing and Tempering - Metal ...
9 may 2016
https://www.metalsupermarkets.com/difference-annealing-tempering/

Annealing involves heating steel to a specified temperature and then cooling at a very slow and controlled rate. Annealing is commonly used to: Soften a metal for cold working.
Annealing restores ductility.

--------------------------------

‘Back‐annealing’ of cold rolled steels through recovery and/or partial recrystallisation
Authors:
Ram kripal Ray Amat Foundation Nepal
Bevis Hutchinson Swerea - Swedish Research
Chiradeep Ghosh Tata Steel
March 2011 International Materials Reviews 56(2):73-97 DOI:10.1179/095066010X12646898728444
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/233586294_'Back-annealing'_of_cold_rolled_steels_through_recovery_andor_partial_recrystallisation

.....
The principle is to retain as much as possible of the hardening due to cold rolling while gaining ductility


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Strength vs. Hardness vs. Toughness
Modified 2021
https://engineering.stackexchange.com/questions/25943/strength-vs-hardness-vs-toughness

dx1dXl.png

i0bPu.jpg





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Hardness Vs. Toughness Vs. Strength
https://www.wasatchsteel.com/hardness-vs-toughness-vs-strength/

.....
Hardness
Hardness is a term that speaks specifically to a metal’s ability to withstand abrasion resistance – or more simply, friction. When rubbing up against or contacting other materials, how well does the material hold up? There are numerous processes within metal working that require high friction resistance, and therefore need high hardness ratings; think of drill bits, grinding discs and numerous other metal tools like screwdrivers or hammers, which constantly produce friction and need to be able to withstand it. A good example of hardness is the diamond, which is one of the hardest substances on the planet. Scratching a diamond is virtually impossible due to this hardness. But if you smashed that same diamond using a sledgehammer, it would shatter – this is because it’s not tough. Let’s look at toughness next.

Toughness
Toughness, on the other hand, speaks to how good a job a material does at resisting fracturing when force is applied to it. Strength, which we’ll go over in a moment, plays a role in toughness, as does ductility – the more a metal can deform before fracturing, the tougher it is. Silly putty is a great example of how some people think incorrectly about these terms: You wouldn’t think of this as a “tough” substance normally, but if it were a metal, it would be very tough because it can stretch to a huge degree before breaking.

Strength
Finally, there’s strength, which refers to the amount of force needed to deform a material. The more force needed, the higher the strength. Steel, for instance, is known to have very high strength due to how hard it is to pull apart.

Overlap
Now, it’s important to note that many metals have overlapping hardness, toughness and strength qualities. A metal can be both hard and strong, such as a drill bit. It can also be tough and strong, such as an anvil. Or in other cases, materials may need to be hard and tough, but not worry too much about strength – think about bulletproof glass, for instance. In addition, it’s possible to enhance these qualities in a given metal. A common format here is ceramic coatings, which increase hardness for metals that lack it but are already strong and tough.

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GnarlyDudeLive

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I believe there is actually a 4th factor in play as well which is corrosion resistance. Well known in the knife/cutlery world which is a heavy application usage of stainless steel. As an novice knife sharpener with an investment in it as a pro (lol), I see this debated all of the time.

As an example: Where Edge Retention = Hardness and Ease of Sharpening = Strength.

1651790906830.png
 
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firsttruck

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I believe there is actually a 4th factor in play as well which is corrosion resistance. Well known in the knife/cutlery world which is a heavy application usage of stainless steel. As an novice knife sharpener with an investment in it as a pro (lol), I see this debated all of the time.

As an example: Where Edge Retention = Hardness and Ease of Sharpening = Strength.

1651790906830.png
Yup.

And even corrosion resistance is complicated.

Your stainless steel kitchen sink/counter, stainless steel utensils, DMC DeLorean car or Cybertruck will not rust but they are not good with bleach, chlorinated care products, or even certain foods (food particles. Don't use rubber mats in sink because traps particles).

------------------------------------------

How to Care for Stainless Steel Pots and Pans
By Sarah Aguirre
Updated on 06/14/21
https://www.thespruce.com/stainless-steel-mistakes-not-to-make-1900569

.....
Don't Bleach Stainless Steel

While it may be second nature to bleach everything, stainless steel and chlorine do not mix. Be aware that bleach and chlorides can be included in different types of cleaners. If you accidentally get chlorine on your stainless steel, rinse it off and quickly and thoroughly.

------------------------------------------

Why shouldn't I use bleach or chlorinated care products to
https://www.cristelusa.com/

......
As with any chlorinated product, bleach can damage stainless steel through a reaction known as "pitting corrosion": in the event of contact, small holes will rapidly form that will make your utensil unusable. Any chlorinated cleaning products, including bleach, should never be used to care for your stainless utensils.

------------------------------------------

The 8 Do’s and Don’ts for Cleaning Stainless Steel
February 24, 2020
https://www.barkeepersfriend.com/dos-donts-cleaning-stainless-steel/

.....
DON’T use chlorine bleach, chloride, oven cleaner, or other abrasive cleaners. Many different cleaners contain chlorides or chlorine. These chemicals and other abrasive cleaners will cause surface pitting. They can also strip the protective chrome oxide barrier from stainless steel. This barrier is what makes stainless steel so durable. Make sure to read labels and know what they contain before using any cleaning products. If you accidentally get chlorine on stainless steel, be sure to wash it off quickly and thoroughly.

------------------------------------------

How to maintain your stainless steel sink
Rick Cisneros from Wells Sinkware Corp. (http://www.wellssinkware.com) explains how to care for stainless steel sinks with brushed and satin finishes.
Sep 5, 2015
Wells Sinkware

------------------------------------------

How to Clean Kitchen Sinks with BKF
September 16, 2020
https://www.barkeepersfriend.com/how-to-clean-kitchen-sinks/

------------------------------------------

How to Disinfect Stainless Steel in Cleanrooms and Labs
2022 March
https://www.prudentialuniforms.com/blog/how-to-disinfect-stainless-steel-in-cleanrooms-and-labs/

------------------------------------------

How to Properly Disinfect Your Stainless Steel Equipment & Food Prep surfaces.
Killing Germs, Bacteria, and Viruses on Stainless Steel Surfaces.
by Chase Stanley | Mar 25, 2020
https://resources.centralrestaurant.com/disinfect-stainless-steel-prep-surfaces/

------------------------------------------

Frame & Body Washing the DeLorean
https://dmctalk.org/archive/index.php/t-192.html

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General Quick cleaning question
DMCTalk Forum - A DeLorean Community > MAIN FORUMS > General DeLorean Discussion >

.....
David T 03-10-2017
The *best* cleaner I have found is the one the Delorean vendors sell. It is the Chemsearch GLO-SS PLUS spray can. Pricey. I don't use it a lot. For general clean-ups Windex works OK. For washing the car I use an automotive car soap (Griot's Garage) and hot water. Household detergents are usually too concentrated and it is difficult to completely rinse the soap off. For spot cleaning alcohol works too. Never use any wax on the S/S. If the streaks are very bad you may have to use a blending pad to get the surface clean.

NEVER let wet leaves stay on the car. They can stain the S/S and the only way to get the stain off is to sand it out or use a blending pad.

.....
Mark D 03-10-2017
There are pretty much two options when it comes to how you want to maintain the stainless. This is a bit of an oversimplification but you can either:

1. Use cleaners that remove all oil and residue from the stainless...Bar keepers friend ( BKF ), windex, invisible glass, etc are all designed to leave the finish squeaky clean, oil free, with no residue. The advantage here is that the metal is left completely bare and the stainless looks bright and even. There is no oil present so dust and dirt are less likely to cling and build up. Maintaining the surface completely oil free can be difficult though and finger prints tend to show up and be a chore remove.

2. Use cleaners that are oil based that keep the surface 'treated' at all times. Aerosol stainless polish, stainless polish in manual spray bottles, and other synthetic polish like 'ICE' synthetic car polish would be examples. The surface is made to be uniformly oily so the stainless is evenly colored but it tends to look a little darker. The main advantage is that oily finger prints do not show up since the surface already has a coating of oil. Dirt and dust tends to build up faster, but can be maintained by another application of polish to wipe it away.

------------------------------------------
 
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Jhodgesatmb

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Not a dig on OP, I just find the singular instead of plural reference in the title humorous. As most know, I am no stranger to typos, apple’s cursed autocorrect and fragmented thoughts.

That will be one busy employee if he is the only one trained for hot stamping.

Welcome to the forum.
Thanks for everyone's input! This is the worst disaster I've ever started hahaha (and I cried a single tear but popped in a self-help audio tape and I'm perfectly fine now btw John k), and yea all good points everyone mentions (I have a 2 and 4 year old son and daughter, respectively so haven't had time to catch up to the metallurgists research done on here MY GOD AM I IMPRESSED! But I will).

So all I know is that a single human Tesla employee of female origin was on the training. Now, Tesla could have more employees jump on at later times, but everyone here is right - we just don't have enough info to be conclusive of anything. I'm going to speak with Joe (brother) tomorrow and ask him his thoughts on the conundrum of hot forming cold rolled steel and also find out what in the hell he's doing with that software to make a seemingly common process so special.

I think the answer to the above along with why CyberGus is so damn funny would be very fulfilling.

 

 

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