Towing tested with 6,000lb Tesla and trailer load

[mhaze]

I mean, I don’t intend to suggest this isn’t multi-factorial

but that in broad strokes, the overwhelming difference in BEV competitiveness is gas tank

because with respect to the other factors, there are so many they begin to cut each way and net out

.....​

....

No, they do not. Better to follow the Occam's razor auxiliary principle: "Simplify the problem, but only to the extent required to accurately represent it."

For example, let's consider "mission profile," typical use case. Let's ignore "things will be way better in the future."

A guy has a mission profile to drive his truck to a job site and return home, pulling a 6000 lb trailer. The site is 25 miles from his home. There are no charging stations on the way and none at the job site. Can he do it with the 87 mile range assumption of the CT?

Answer. No. Because 87 - 25 - 25= 37, which is inadequate safety margin for the inevitable bad days when traffic slows down to a crawl.

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[cvalue13]

No, they do not. Better to follow the Occam's razor auxiliary principle: "Simplify the problem, but only to the extent required to accurately represent it."

For example, let's consider "mission profile," typical use case. Let's ignore "things will be way better in the future."

A guy has a mission profile to drive his truck to a job site and return home, pulling a 6000 lb trailer. The site is 25 miles from his home. There are no charging stations on the way and none at the job site. Can he do it with the 87 mile range assumption of the CT?

Answer. No. Because 87 - 25 - 25= 37, which is inadequate safety margin for the inevitable bad days when traffic slows down to a crawl.

huh?

It’s like you’re not reading or responding to my pasts. but instead the posts you’d weather I’d written.

The point of my post was that the Cybertruck has a 13 gallon tank, and so has less range, and so won’t work for people who truly “need” more range.

You’re now stressing how for folks who truly need more range less range won’t work, and in a tone that suggests I’ve said otherwise.

BEV trucks have less range, but many redeeming qualities superior to ICE trucks.

From there, it’s player’s choice as to how one weighs both sides of that scale.



But people can stop being gobbsmacked that a BEV truck’s range is changed by conditions, or slaughtered by towing - because that behavior is identical to ICE trucks.

You’re only now focusing on those range dynamics because the small tank size, and less ubiquitous “gas station” distribution, not because BEV drivetrains are pregnant with some dark magic.

 

[Woodrick]

Let's see how the

I think RV trailers will start adding large battery packs and motors. It's not a wishful thinking. This company is already doing it - https://pebblelife.com/. A local trailer rental company in CA is considering to pre-order these trailers. I spoke with the owner a few days ago. Imagine not losing any range at all while towing these futuristic trailers AND charging your truck from these battery packs or vice versa.

This will be the future of RV towing IMO. It'll take few years for RV industry to catch up with the EV revolution, but it's happening.

It's a really nice trailer, teetering on getting one.

But for it to be justifiable (and sure, there are people who don't need to justify the purchase) it really needs to be able to do vehicle to home. Having 4 Powerwalls sitting outside of your house for 300 days a year makes it pretty expensive per trip. But as a battery backup, a lot more justifiable.

 

[Woodrick]

No, they do not. Better to follow the Occam's razor auxiliary principle: "Simplify the problem, but only to the extent required to accurately represent it."

For example, let's consider "mission profile," typical use case. Let's ignore "things will be way better in the future."

A guy has a mission profile to drive his truck to a job site and return home, pulling a 6000 lb trailer. The site is 25 miles from his home. There are no charging stations on the way and none at the job site. Can he do it with the 87 mile range assumption of the CT?

Answer. No. Because 87 - 25 - 25= 37, which is inadequate safety margin for the inevitable bad days when traffic slows down to a crawl.

ROTFLMAO

You answered your question as an ICE driver.

EVs LOVE stop and go or stopped traffic. City driving is where they are best at.

Unlike an ICE that keeps the motor running at all times, an EV doesn't use power if it isn't moving.

"But I have a start/stop vehicle that doesn't run the motor when stopped" But it does have to crank it to provide climate control. EV climate controls run off the battery and never require the motor to be on.

Oh, and the 25 miles from home suggest that he may not be on the Interstate that much, that helps extend the range as well.


I can't tell you the number of times that I wished for a traffic jam when I was driving my 88-mile range Leaf. I would normally drive with the flow of the traffic and knew that at 70mph, that I'd often have to stop to charge on the way home. But at 60 mph, getting home was easy.

 

[Gigahorse]

Slightly more weight and significantly larger trailer resulted in significantly worse range unfortunately. At least 5 towing range tests in now with the average point to sub 100 miles of range with 80%+ of battery pack used

 

[Art O'Connor]

You charge at home while you sleep at night-- wake up its 100% for your trip. You charge at an RV park wake up and it's 100% to head back or to next destination. Charge while you have a meal and a drink, come back out your 100%. Charge while you nap or an encounter with the better half, wake up you're at 100%. It's easy.

I have ordered an X while I wait for my CT number to come up in another year or so. My service center let me borrow an X. One of the conditions was that I charge it. So, last night I took it to the Super Charger at RanchHarrah here in Reno, Nevada. Big! 24 bays! 18 0f them occupied when I got there with 54% in the battery. In 22 minutes, I was at 90%. So, what is the 3 hour stuff? OBTW, Tesla does not recommend charging to 100%. That model X is quiet! I was driving down I-580 toward Carson in fast 80+ mph traffic in the far right lane. I thought I might be asking for a ticket; so I took my foot off the accelerator. I was getting passed. Then I noticed I was passing everybody! I looked at the dash and it said 105 mph! Regenerative breaking should have slowed the car down, but didn't. I did a reset and update that night and regenerative breaking worked in the morning. Whew! Regenerative breaking is so good you should be able to drive without ever using the brake. While charging, I read the owners manual and watched all the videos. Then I went to unplug and could not get the light to turn white. I watched both charging videos three times. I gave up and asked another Tesla driver to help me. Ah! You have to push in on the connector while pressing the button. That was NOT in any video or the manual. Grrr!

 

[Gigahorse]

I have ordered an X while I wait for my CT number to come up in another year or so. My service center let me borrow an X. One of the conditions was that I charge it. So, last night I took it to the Super Charger at RanchHarrah here in Reno, Nevada. Big! 24 bays! 18 0f them occupied when I got there with 54% in the battery. In 22 minutes, I was at 90%. So, what is the 3 hour stuff? OBTW, Tesla does not recommend charging to 100%. That model X is quiet! I was driving down I-580 toward Carson in fast 80+ mph traffic in the far right lane. I thought I might be asking for a ticket; so I took my foot off the accelerator. I was getting passed. Then I noticed I was passing everybody! I looked at the dash and it said 105 mph! Regenerative breaking should have slowed the car down, but didn't. I did a reset and update that night and regenerative breaking worked in the morning. Whew! Regenerative breaking is so good you should be able to drive without ever using the brake. While charging, I read the owners manual and watched all the videos. Then I went to unplug and could not get the light to turn white. I watched both charging videos three times. I gave up and asked another Tesla driver to help me. Ah! You have to push in on the connector while pressing the button. That was NOT in any video or the manual. Grrr!

Yea the model X charging is GREAT, especially in comparison. If the cybertruck charged nearly as well as the X the low range #s would not be a problem, it is the combination of low range, slow charging, and high price that have a lot of people reconsidering.

 

[DelPhonic1]

I have ordered an X while I wait for my CT number to come up in another year or so. My service center let me borrow an X. One of the conditions was that I charge it. So, last night I took it to the Super Charger at RanchHarrah here in Reno, Nevada. Big! 24 bays! 18 0f them occupied when I got there with 54% in the battery. In 22 minutes, I was at 90%. So, what is the 3 hour stuff? OBTW, Tesla does not recommend charging to 100%. That model X is quiet! I was driving down I-580 toward Carson in fast 80+ mph traffic in the far right lane. I thought I might be asking for a ticket; so I took my foot off the accelerator. I was getting passed. Then I noticed I was passing everybody! I looked at the dash and it said 105 mph! Regenerative breaking should have slowed the car down, but didn't. I did a reset and update that night and regenerative breaking worked in the morning. Whew! Regenerative breaking is so good you should be able to drive without ever using the brake. While charging, I read the owners manual and watched all the videos. Then I went to unplug and could not get the light to turn white. I watched both charging videos three times. I gave up and asked another Tesla driver to help me. Ah! You have to push in on the connector while pressing the button. That was NOT in any video or the manual. Grrr!

When you travel, 100% is totally acceptable. Don't be afraid of it on trips. As long as you don't leave it at that level for long, you're fine. I just drove SR-71 (the name of my plaid X) from Cali to Tennessee and back via the CT event in Austin, and stopping in Santa Fe on the way home. Driving that beast is like nirvana all the way. Road tripping doesn't get better than in an X-- use autopilot or FSD if you have it. Maybe the CT, let's see when we both get it.

 

[Gigahorse]

When you travel, 100% is totally acceptable. Don't be afraid of it on trips. As long as you don't leave it at that level for long, you're fine. I just drove SR-71 (the name of my plaid X) from Cali to Tennessee and back via the CT event in Austin, and stopping in Santa Fe on the way home. Driving that beast is like nirvana all the way. Road tripping doesn't get better than in an X-- use autopilot or FSD if you have it. Maybe the CT, let's see when we both get it.

The model X is a dream vehicle, does not quite fit my needs but had the pleasure of driving one for a few days.
A couple points.
X has FSD - currently the CT does not
X has about300 miles of real world range, CT has about 200
X has a pretty solid charging curve at superchargers, CT charging is pretty slow

I really hope the CT can catch up to it's big brother the Model X but it has a WAYS to go

 

[Crissa]

Yea the model X charging is GREAT, especially in comparison. If the cybertruck charged nearly as well as the X the low range #s would not be a problem, it is the combination of low range, slow charging, and high price that have a lot of people reconsidering.

Do you have evidence the Cybertruck doesn't load kWh as fast? It has a larger battery so 0-50 is 10kWh more than in a Model X so we'd expect on the same charger it would take 20% longer.

-Crissa

 

[Art O'Connor]

Yea the model X charging is GREAT, especially in comparison. If the cybertruck charged nearly as well as the X the low range #s would not be a problem, it is the combination of low range, slow charging, and high price that have a lot of people reconsidering.

Wow! I did not know the CT charged differently than the other Teslas. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[Woodrick]

I have ordered an X while I wait for my CT number to come up in another year or so. My service center let me borrow an X. One of the conditions was that I charge it. So, last night I took it to the Super Charger at RanchHarrah here in Reno, Nevada. Big! 24 bays! 18 0f them occupied when I got there with 54% in the battery. In 22 minutes, I was at 90%. So, what is the 3 hour stuff? OBTW, Tesla does not recommend charging to 100%. That model X is quiet! I was driving down I-580 toward Carson in fast 80+ mph traffic in the far right lane. I thought I might be asking for a ticket; so I took my foot off the accelerator. I was getting passed. Then I noticed I was passing everybody! I looked at the dash and it said 105 mph! Regenerative breaking should have slowed the car down, but didn't. I did a reset and update that night and regenerative breaking worked in the morning. Whew! Regenerative breaking is so good you should be able to drive without ever using the brake. While charging, I read the owners manual and watched all the videos. Then I went to unplug and could not get the light to turn white. I watched both charging videos three times. I gave up and asked another Tesla driver to help me. Ah! You have to push in on the connector while pressing the button. That was NOT in any video or the manual. Grrr!

So, what is the 3 hour stuff?

That's a really good question.
A lot of it is people not yet knowing what they are doing. I'm not saying that they are saying anything incorrectly, it just necessarily fit reality.
The only analogy that I could quickly think of was a YouTuber trying to get in a door and they couldn't do it, they tried all sorts of ways and couldn't get it. You and I look at it and roll eyes. It was a doggie door!!!
The Cybertruck is a larger vehicle, it will take longer. That's pretty much a given.
But, lots of people charge at home. Plug in when you get in, unplug when you leave. They often have no idea how long their vehicle was charging or even care.
When on the road, charging is a little more of an issue, but the fastest way to travel is not obvious, approaching the chargers with low levels of battery and only charging to about 50% is the fastest way to travel. You stay on the right side of the battery curve.
Also, a few years ago, Tesla introduced the concept of battery conditioning to allow the battery charge a little faster. If you used the in-car navigation to route to the Supercharger, it should have engaged the battery conditioning, which shows up at the top of the turn-by-turn cards.
Yes, and not conditioning a battery is something that makes it take longer. A common Youtuber mistake.

Your experience expecting regen braking was because of one, maybe two factors. If the battery is nearly full, regenerative braking is decreased. 90% charge will do it. If it is cold, that also hurts.

Yes, if you only slightly press the accelerator in a Tesla, 90mph (form 60) is super easy to pass by in a blinkl.

You shouldn't have to push in on the connector to remove it. All you should need to do is press the button on the plug. It is possible that the engagement mechanism may have been a little jammed and that's what caused the issue.

I hope that you are enjoying the vehicle. It's will be relatively similar to the Cybertruck, except that the Cybertruck will only have the single screen, as the Model 3 and Model Y do. And of course, no gull wing doors.

 

[Woodrick]

Wow! I did not know the CT charged differently than the other Teslas. Thanks for the heads up.

.

The Cybertruck battery doesn't charge any different than the other Teslas. The only difference is that the Cybertruck is a bigger vehicle and uses more power. That just means that you will be waiting a little longer when charging, maybe 30%.
So, your 20-minute stop in a Model X may be a 26-minute stop in a Cybertruck.

That just gives you a little bit more time to play one of the games, watch a movie or chill to some music.

 

[DelPhonic1]

Yea the model X charging is GREAT, especially in comparison. If the cybertruck charged nearly as well as the X the low range #s would not be a problem, it is the combination of low range, slow charging, and high price that have a lot of people reconsidering.

You guys are getting all bent out of shape on the earliest models. 4680 next gen battery is coming soon, v4's will actually come on line, and all of this gnashing of teeth will have been long forgotten.

 

[Art O'Connor]

That's a really good question.
A lot of it is people not yet knowing what they are doing. I'm not saying that they are saying anything incorrectly, it just necessarily fit reality.
The only analogy that I could quickly think of was a YouTuber trying to get in a door and they couldn't do it, they tried all sorts of ways and couldn't get it. You and I look at it and roll eyes. It was a doggie door!!!
The Cybertruck is a larger vehicle, it will take longer. That's pretty much a given.
But, lots of people charge at home. Plug in when you get in, unplug when you leave. They often have no idea how long their vehicle was charging or even care.
When on the road, charging is a little more of an issue, but the fastest way to travel is not obvious, approaching the chargers with low levels of battery and only charging to about 50% is the fastest way to travel. You stay on the right side of the battery curve.
Also, a few years ago, Tesla introduced the concept of battery conditioning to allow the battery charge a little faster. If you used the in-car navigation to route to the Supercharger, it should have engaged the battery conditioning, which shows up at the top of the turn-by-turn cards.
Yes, and not conditioning a battery is something that makes it take longer. A common Youtuber mistake.

Your experience expecting regen braking was because of one, maybe two factors. If the battery is nearly full, regenerative braking is decreased. 90% charge will do it. If it is cold, that also hurts.

Yes, if you only slightly press the accelerator in a Tesla, 90mph (form 60) is super easy to pass by in a blinkl.

You shouldn't have to push in on the connector to remove it. All you should need to do is press the button on the plug. It is possible that the engagement mechanism may have been a little jammed and that's what caused the issue.

I hope that you are enjoying the vehicle. It's will be relatively similar to the Cybertruck, except that the Cybertruck will only have the single screen, as the Model 3 and Model Y do. And of course, no gull wing doors.

The Service Center Manager agreed it was probably a software issue cleared by the reset. Regen braking works great, now. I DID navigate to the charger. Thanks for pointing out that will pre-condition the battery. If I don't navigate, I will make sure to manually pre-condition.

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