Winch - What is the priority?

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ldjessee

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Looking at the 220amp draw for the 24v version of the Stallion 25k winch I posted about, I see why people would want to go 24 volt, plus a lot of people who off road run dual batteries (in Jeeps and trucks), so it would be not hard to run a 24v winch.

Now, just need a way to get 24v and the amp draw would not be that bad.

OH, and they make a 24v version of that Warn Zeon 12k winch as well. but it is more expensive than the 12v version.
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FutureBoy

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OH, and they make a 24v version of that Warn Zeon 12k winch as well. but it is more expensive than the 12v version. [INITIAL][/INITIAL]
The story of my life. For some reason, I always want something that is just a little bit different than the norm and it is always more expensive than the norm. No surprise I guess.

But now with the CT itself. If the norm is the regular truck crowd, then for once in my life it looks like I'm wanting something that is better and cheaper than the norm. Can't wait.
 

Zabhawkin

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Yes, that's supported by nearly every vehicle just fine. I don't need to look it up because I have decades of experience with winches and they are totally predictable.
A friend had one on an old Toyota pickup with a 45amp alternator he could run it for a couple of minutes at a time which was usually more than enough. Electrically all you need is a battery to power it and take the surge current. Ugly to the left there has a 9000lb winch which has gotten lots of use, even once or twice with the motor off, I forget why but we had a reason at the time.
 

SwampNut

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45amp alternator
Holy crap that's small. But as you said, it's just amps in and out, plus how many amps can be supported for a short time. The only reason Tesla can't handle it is that the 12v battery is tiny.

The silver one in my photo was winched with the motor off because the water totaled it. Not ingestion, but wiring harnesses and such.
 
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Rivian is going to offer an electric winch terminal. The CT needs to have dual batteries and 3x the recharge capacity vs a model Y to make a winch plausible but a zeon 12s is the logical and economical choice for recovery ve tesla making one.
12v is a pretty dumb voltage for this application…especially considering the power available.
 


slomobile

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Now, just need a way to get 24v and the amp draw would not be that bad.
A 24v power tap on cypertruck would be useful for charging a power wheelchair as well. We're looking at CT as a WAV because of the powered ramp and possible midgate to slide off the wheelchair and into the drivers seat.
Might be nice to charge up the kid's hoverboard too.

What if the 12v tap on CT were modular and stackable? one 12 tap stock, Add 1 for 24v double current, add 2 for 36v, tripple current, add 4 and get 48v with 4x the basic current. A 48v winch should draw 1/4 the current of a 12v.

Could that work?
 

charliemagpie

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A 24v power tap on cypertruck would be useful for charging a power wheelchair as well. We're looking at CT as a WAV because of the powered ramp and possible midgate to slide off the wheelchair and into the drivers seat.
Might be nice to charge up the kid's hoverboard too.

What if the 12v tap on CT were modular and stackable? one 12 tap stock, Add 1 for 24v double current, add 2 for 36v, tripple current, add 4 and get 48v with 4x the basic current. A 48v winch should draw 1/4 the current of a 12v.

Could that work?
Maybe the midgate option will work for some, but surely not for heavy people, they will always need the hoist.

For my CT real world scenario :


My wife has been caring for a quadriplegic gentleman for about 4 years now.

We have taken him on day trips with his van, and a couple of cruises. Mobility is the issue. Cruise has been his goto option.

He was the roaming nomad type, motorbike and dog, and sleeping by the roadside. That was decades ago. Engineer wannabe.

He is heavy, I'm hoping we can get him into a seat using the hoist..(I've only ever used the van with ramp)

No winch required. The empty wheelchair will drive itself up the ramp. I can hang on if it requires counter leaving. I think, easy-peasy.

Plans are afoot !! All he has to do is turn up with his carer at an airport near where we are, and he can have a holiday without the general restrictions of transport, or charging issues. A tent under the awning with a blow up bed will do the trick for sleeping. Can take him anywhere, and drop him off anywhere.

Yet unheralded, by including the ramp as a stock standard item, for the disabled community, the everyday CT will be a revelation.
 

SwampNut

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A 24v power tap on cypertruck would be useful for charging a power wheelchair as well. We're looking at CT as a WAV because of the powered ramp and possible midgate to slide off the wheelchair and into the drivers seat.
Might be nice to charge up the kid's hoverboard too.

What if the 12v tap on CT were modular and stackable? one 12 tap stock, Add 1 for 24v double current, add 2 for 36v, tripple current, add 4 and get 48v with 4x the basic current. A 48v winch should draw 1/4 the current of a 12v.

Could that work?
It's not really electrically feasible. Batteries can be "stacked" (called series wiring) to increase voltage. You can't put buck converters in series (the likely device to bring the HV voltage down). If the output were AC you could "stack" phases like you can with home electrical.

We still keep coming back to what people would spend. Winches are at a crazy all-time low price. They are insanely plentiful as of a few years ago, and you can buy a GREAT one with synthetic line for $550. What would it cost to start making them in other voltages? Dunno. We do know that standardization and mass production means lower prices. Also less current is always good, but more voltage has its own problems.

My last winch cost me $550 plus the mount kit, plus the higher-end shackle. I also added a fuse, and you'd be surprised, most people don't fuse them at all. Nearly all winches I see are direct to the battery with no protection. All in I was close to $1k. Would I spend $1500 total for an engineered CT kit at say, 48V? Yes. But $2k? $3k hell no.
 

SwampNut

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You can't put buck converters in series (the likely device to bring the HV voltage down).
I'm wrong. I consulted my favorite electrical engineer and he said there are some caveats but it could be designed this way. "Don't go buy two Chinese converters on eBay and expect this to be safe, but we could design it." BUT...it would also just be much smarter to simply have multiple converters at the right voltage.
 

Crissa

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I'm wrong. I consulted my favorite electrical engineer and he said there are some caveats but it could be designed this way. "Don't go buy two Chinese converters on eBay and expect this to be safe, but we could design it." BUT...it would also just be much smarter to simply have multiple converters at the right voltage.
Yeah, what is possible is different than what 'just works'.

And looking back at the numbers, you were right about the fuse size, as most uses should only be a few minutes at a time.

-Crissa
 


SwampNut

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To put a fine point on what you said, the fuses on my last Jeep had a 400a constant rating, and then something like 500a for 30 seconds. Not the correct numbers, just something in that range for momentary usage. Breakers in the house are the same. 18a constant on a 20a breaker, but over 20a for a short time.

My engineer friend thinks 48v (ish) is a great number for a compromise between amps and the dangers/challenges of high voltage, which Crissa has already enumerated. Nothing is without compromise.
 

ldjessee

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The problem with POE, even the new POE plus (IEEE 802.3bt) is only 99 watts max. So at 48 volts, that would be just a touch over 2amps... Which would be more than enough for normal lights and a lot of other components, but not sure for things like a winch.
 

Crissa

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The problem with POE, even the new POE plus (IEEE 802.3bt) is only 99 watts max. So at 48 volts, that would be just a touch over 2amps... Which would be more than enough for normal lights and a lot of other components, but not sure for things like a winch.
Yes.

But that's just for the legs of the Ethernet: Not for the base source.

-Crissa

(I still think the best choice will be 240/120v to be compatible with standard tools.)
 

SwampNut

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PoE is an intrinsic and critical part of my business. I'm very familiar. The power you can send down a 22 gauge wire is very low. The source products (switches) can run into a couple hundred watts, but not thousands. PoE is only useful for a turn signal or maybe a wiper motor (MAYBE), but no real power. I agree with Crissa on 120VAC as a good all around compromise.
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