Winch - What is the priority?

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OP
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Well I tried my artificial muscle and twisting rope winch idea as well, but there was no comment on those. :(

Lets see if a couple more will tickle someones fancy. These don't require egress:
  • Use extending tailgate ramp with hydraulics on telescoping parts to push you along
  • CT track mod
  • SpaceX Cold air thrusters
  • Use underfloor conveyor, or reciprocating sliding plate and airsuspension to walk out of a bog
these are gold…
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slomobile

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Use underfloor conveyor, or reciprocating sliding plate and airsuspension to walk out of a bog
Make the vault cover, tailgate, midgate, and ramp all out the vault cover sections. Part of the track for these runs under the vehicle so these same sections can serve as an underbody tank track to pull you off of obstacles if you become high centered.
 

JBee

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Some programable matter would also work. :cool:

There's obviously situations where lack of traction makes a winch one of the only options, but what other things can be done to stop from getting stuck in the first place?

Good tyre selection with correct pressure (CTIS?) with beadlocker, sensor for clearance under vehicle, or use offroad SLAM (thats just a software update away) for path and traction prediction, rocking and hopping air suspension (like Merc GLS) with torque going to wheel with most load, momentum assist for sand driving, steering angle assist to limit angle (most people try to steer while they try to unbog themselves :rolleyes:), incline tip over protection etc.
 

SparkChaser

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Some programable matter would also work. :cool:

There's obviously situations where lack of traction makes a winch one of the only options, but what other things can be done to stop from getting stuck in the first place?

Good tyre selection with correct pressure (CTIS?) with beadlocker, sensor for clearance under vehicle, or use offroad SLAM (thats just a software update away) for path and traction prediction, rocking and hopping air suspension (like Merc GLS) with torque going to wheel with most load, momentum assist for sand driving, steering angle assist to limit angle (most people try to steer while they try to unbog themselves :rolleyes:), incline tip over protection etc.
WWII LRDG using a slated canvas as a traction enhancer in North Africa.

Tesla Cybertruck Winch - What is the priority? Sand track in use
 

ldjessee

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Where do you get the 1.5 from?

It's 240V x √3 (or 1.732...) = 415.69V

That calculation is also mentioned in the "Principle" section of the link you posted. It also describes the difference between UK, Europe and Australia which are virtually the same, and then compared to USA. Australia is 400V/230V now too, since 2019 to suit EU.
If you look at the wave form diagram that I linked to, you see that from the peak of one wave to the lowest point of the either other phase, the total difference is 1.5. If the peak from zero (base line) is 120 volts, then 120 * 1.5 = 180 volts.

If from the base line to the peak is 240v, then the max difference is 360 volts, still not 415...

I see where it says the square-root of 3, but from the diagram, I only ever see a max difference being 1.5.

I will not fight the math, but I just still do not understand that at any given instance, how it produces 415 volts.
 


JBee

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If you look at the wave form diagram that I linked to, you see that from the peak of one wave to the lowest point of the either other phase, the total difference is 1.5. If the peak from zero (base line) is 120 volts, then 120 * 1.5 = 180 volts.

If from the base line to the peak is 240v, then the max difference is 360 volts, still not 415...

I see where it says the square-root of 3, but from the diagram, I only ever see a max difference being 1.5.

I will not fight the math, but I just still do not understand that at any given instance, how it produces 415 volts.
Trying to visualise Polyphase power from a 2D graph won't work as it does not show that it is actually in 3D, hence the trigonometry. It's 120 degrees offset not 180 (which can be shown in 2D).

Btw this is also just the voltage waveform, the current wave form can and does lead and lag the voltage and is used actively for network power control to make sure voltage stays within limits whilst maintaining power levels.
 

ldjessee

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Trying to visualise Polyphase power from a 2D graph won't work as it does not show that it is actually in 3D, hence the trigonometry. It's 120 degrees offset not 180 (which can be shown in 2D).

Btw this is also just the voltage waveform, the current wave form can and does lead and lag the voltage and is used actively for network power control to make sure voltage stays within limits whilst maintaining power levels.
Thanks for taking the time.

Still not sure I understand it at a gut level, but I understand what you said and how that would look on an oscilloscope.
 
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If you look at the wave form diagram that I linked to, you see that from the peak of one wave to the lowest point of the either other phase, the total difference is 1.5. If the peak from zero (base line) is 120 volts, then 120 * 1.5 = 180 volts.

If from the base line to the peak is 240v, then the max difference is 360 volts, still not 415...

I see where it says the square-root of 3, but from the diagram, I only ever see a max difference being 1.5.

I will not fight the math, but I just still do not understand that at any given instance, how it produces 415 volts.
I don’t understand it either, but here in Australia, 3phase is 415v.
 

JBee

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Thanks for taking the time.

Still not sure I understand it at a gut level, but I understand what you said and how that would look on an oscilloscope.
No worries. Remember in AC current flow reverses direction 50(Hz) or 60(Hz) times a second. :unsure:

Let's do another example just to visualise in a single frame of time, US split phase is 180 degrees off set and is twice the voltage being 120/240V. Now how much would it roughly be at only 120degrees if 90degrees would be 1.5?

Btw remind yourself where you are measuring voltage potentials between. For a 240V/415V setup you are measuring a star configuration and measuring the neutral from between the 3 phases for 240V, but in 415V you are measuring between the phases themselves and disregarding the neutral all together.

Understanding potentials is critical. For example we have a dedicated fixed telephone line that comes in for Scada network control telemetry into our 1.4MW RE power plant. Because we convert our 415V alternator to 22kV on site via a transformer with our own earth grid, the telephone line that comes in with 24V from the telephone service provider actually has 22kV (22,000V) on it as well! This is because of earth potential rise, being that the return of three phase power is through the ground and not through wires back to the generator, so we are essentially "pushing down" the earth potentential around the power station by 22kV making the phone line potential difference to the telephone exchange a few miles away 22,000V. Thats not good for anyone working on it or plugging a phone in so we have dedicated line isolation transformers for the telephone lines to avoid this.

In German there's a saying amougst electricians that goes "Wer mist, mist mist". Translated that means "Who measures, measures crap". Sometimes though if it goes wrong it's just "crap, crap crap"! 😋:ROFLMAO:
 
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SolarWizard

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Rivian is going to offer an electric winch terminal. The CT needs to have dual batteries and 3x the recharge capacity vs a model Y to make a winch plausible but a zeon 12s is the logical and economical choice for recovery ve tesla making one.
 


Crissa

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Rivian is going to offer an electric winch terminal. The CT needs to have dual batteries and 3x the recharge capacity vs a model Y to make a winch plausible but a zeon 12s is the logical and economical choice for recovery ve tesla making one.
No current Tesla can handle that amperage draw on the 12v system. I would be dubious of putting it on an RV, let alone a Tesla.

-Crissa
 

SwampNut

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No Tesla can handle much 12v current, but every RV, Jeep, etc can handle it just fine. Source: Using winches on RVs, Jeeps...etc.
 

Crissa

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No Tesla can handle much 12v current, but every RV, Jeep, etc can handle it just fine. Source: Using winches on RVs, Jeeps...etc.
Not every RV can.

Source: shopping for a lithium rv battery.

Sure, big RVs can, and most trucks, but little ones... probably can't. And a bunch of the LFP batteries can't take it, either, without being a big, very expensive bank.

-Crissa
 

SwampNut

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I'd love to see what you found that can't support a winch. You must have tried really hard. Ok, 99% of RVs can.
 

SwampNut

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You know you can take any Jeep or truck on the market right now and safely add a winch, right? Zero magic. Just do it. I've installed at least a dozen.
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