Winch - What is the priority?

[SwampNut]

LOL, mechanics are already super terrible at electrical stuff. I wonder how many crispy mechanics we'd have if 400 VDC were easily exposed to them.

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[JBee]

If you don't think handling direct voltage off the traction battery is not more dangerous or difficult...

...I do not respect your risk assessment.

There's reasons why household voltage is not 400, and there are reasons why you'd need additional breakers and contactors for such an implementation. And why you'd have to have it installed not by a standard mechanic.

More dangerous of a modification doesn't mean it wouldn't perform better.

-Crissa

Um we have 415V 3 phase in our houses already as standard?

No body is saying an unqualified person should work on or modify a EV.

Just like an unqualified mechnic shouldn't modify your car brakes or fuel line. And then to top it off to claim that a more dangerous modification wouldn't mean it would perform better is a little bit ridiculous. I don't think anyone here believes that it will work better because its more dangerous to modify? If they do then they need to grab a head mechnic to see if their head is still screwed on right. Lol

 

[SwampNut]

Um we have 415V 3 phase in our houses already as standard?

Where do you live? In the US, pretty much nobody has that at home. I knew one guy who ordered it, for Bitcoin mining, and paid around $10k to get it.

 

[JBee]

Where do you live? In the US, pretty much nobody has that at home. I knew one guy who ordered it, for Bitcoin mining, and paid around $10k to get it.

There's a little blue flag to the right of my username that gives it away. Heaps of countries have 400V supplies to houses. Point is can be made safe enough to use, just like 240V is made safe enough to use, and shouldn't be discounted as a viable option to drive some gear.

 

[SwampNut]

There's a little blue flag to the right of my username that gives it away.

Not useful as it's super tiny on my screen.

 

[Crissa]

400v is not what's piped inside Australian households. It's stepped down to 230, the same as EU, the same as will be available to the AC outlets in the Cybertruck and will already have contactors and breakers.

More voltage, more jumping. And unless there are blank circuits to attach to, also will require wiring into a live battery. More dangerous, more expensive.

You can't just handwave on a list of pros and cons. This is a con. It doesn't mean it'll be less safe in the end (tho technically, yes, since the failure case is worse) and it doesn't mean the pros don't outweigh the cons. They just exist.

We've had this conversation so many times. You can't just handwave away objective pros and cons.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Not useful as it's super tiny on my screen.

Australian.

 

[SwampNut]

Ah, so 230v. I was just having this conversation with one of your neighbors the other day because he had some fried outlets.

 

[JBee]

400v is not what's piped inside Australian households. It's stepped down to 230, the same as EU, the same as will be available to the AC outlets in the Cybertruck and will already have contactors and breakers.

More voltage, more jumping. And unless there are blank circuits to attach to, also will require wiring into a live battery. More dangerous, more expensive.

You can't just handwave on a list of pros and cons. This is a con. It doesn't mean it'll be less safe in the end (tho technically, yes, since the failure case is worse) and it doesn't mean the pros don't outweigh the cons. They just exist.

We've had this conversation so many times. You can't just handwave away objective pros and cons.

-Crissa

Um have we? And how many times have you been proven flat out wrong? You need to at least know the basics before holding a lecture on how you think things are! ?

Round 42:

Power in virtually all countries (except isolated islands & micro grids etc,) use 3 phase generation and transmit and distribute 3 phase into suburbs. Even the US.

These countries use voltages as shown:

In suburbia a 415V 3 phase underground line is laid in the street or overhead poles in older regions. Its important to understand where exactly the 240V comes from, because it actually comes from one phase of the 3phase 415V directly without any transformation whatsoever.

The 415V is the phase to phase voltage of the 3 phase supply, but 240v is the phase to neutral voltage. Since 2019 and Australian Standard AS 60038 we now have 400V and 230V respectively same as Europe etc for household supply.

Now while in "normal developed countries" (lol ? ) in the USA they have an additional split voltage configuration for those scared of numbers over 110V, that uses a center tap on the transformer:

Quick quiz to see if my explanations worked: If you cut a 3phase cable in Australia with a knife and are standing on ground, how many volts will you get zapped by?

 

[SwampNut]

If you cut a 3phase cable in Australia and are standing on ground, how many volts will you get zapped by?

None, they will basically cross each other and short out that way.

How many conductors are delivered to Australian houses? Here it's two, what we call residential split phase. Is there any place in the house where you get more than 230 (nominal)? Here it's 240, or more likely precisely 242 in places with modern infrastructure.

 

[Crissa]

I like how you completely prove my point, JBee. Thanks.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

You can choose between 1 phase 240V or 3 phase 415V nearly everywhere except out bush where feeders are limited to 1 phase to save wiring costs just to a couple of houses. Many farms then convert back to 3 phase to run off the shelf 3ph machinery.

BTW answer is partial right, if you get one conductor first you'll get 240V to ground, but definitely not 415V, then if you short two conductors you get nothing because current is carried between the two instead. If you cut it wit a plastic knife or stand on a rubber mat its obviously different again.

 

[JBee]

I like how you completely prove my point, JBee. Thanks.

-Crissa

Haha. Trolling again for lack of counter arguement?

 

[Crissa]

Haha. Trolling again for lack of counter arguement?

Look, nothing I said is incorrect, and your long spiel about the power supply didn't contradict a thing I said.

-Crissa

 

[JBee]

Where do you live? In the US, pretty much nobody has that at home. I knew one guy who ordered it, for Bitcoin mining, and paid around $10k to get it.

As for cost this is what our network provider offers to convert to 3 phase:

Most houses either have a power connection dome shared between two or more houses or an overhead 415V 3ph line. The dome is cheaper because it obviously already has the 3 phases together on the ground, whilst the overhead requires two new overheads to be connected. Note this doesn't include cable length to house connection point or a 3 phase meter if you haven't already got one. I always opt for 3 phase on install, only cost $1-2k more all up.

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