Round or square? Buttons or stalks?

[CyberSleuth]

I would like to try a square steering wheel. I might even like it.
I'm willing to try to stalkless turn signals. I might get used to it.
I will tolerate, but not prefer on-screen shifting.

I've cracked an infotainment display before and don't want to have a scenario where the car is bricked if that happens. Being that this is intended as a tough work truck, screen damage is more likely than in other models.

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[Coolbreeze704]

On the stalkless vehicles, how do you activate a momentary windshield wipe?

Voice Command also

 

[PilotPete]

I've cracked an infotainment display before and don't want to have a scenario where the car is bricked if that happens. Being that this is intended as a tough work truck, screen damage is more likely than in other models.

On ALL the Teslas without shift stalks, there are backup (not reverse, redundant) buttons that you can use to shift. Your car won’t be bricked. It’s down by the cellphone charger in the S/X and up above the rear view mirror on the 3+.

 

[ÆCIII]

I think the market and consumers should and maybe will decide.

As for just the yoke it's still early yet, but so far how is that actually going?

My opinion is I love minimalism - as long as it's not reduced or delayed accessibility to functions. But once you go crazy with minimalism and start reducing, abstracting, or bottle-necking every thing in a User Interface too much, then you're creating lapses in control and response.

This could possibly be a safety concern too. If you can't respond or signal to other drivers quickly to let them know what you're doing, there could be an accident caused by delays in their awareness and time to react, where a quickly accessible stalk might've alerted them sooner and prevented it.

Ultimately though, I think Tesla should just put each set of options in the configurator for each of the models, (Stalks or Buttons, Wheels or Wheel-Yokes or Yokes), and let each buyer decide.

Then if they continue to scale largely each of these variants or combinations, ultimately they'll be able to collect data on how quickly and reliably the driver accesses these controls, and also any accident data with possible relation to these factors too. They will be able to compare data on stalks or buttons, wheels or yokes, etc.

How effectively one or the other option 'sells' (or what people think they want) is only part of it, because you also want to get data on how accessible the control option is, for it's intended use and safety. If Tesla enabled video content on the front screen even while driving, it certainly might sell well for some, just like cellphone holders to distract from driving also 'sell' quite well. But that obviously is disconnected from the safe or right thing to do.

If they do offer at scale either of the options and collect data on them, then the truth of accessibility and safety at scale, will come out from that data.

Right now only a small relative number of drivers are using them, and some of those drivers already are having issues. But I think after a lot more drivers get their hands on them, their trends, advantages, and disadvantages will become a lot more clear.

- ÆCIII

 

[CyberSleuth]

On ALL the Teslas without shift stalks, there are backup (not reverse, redundant) buttons that you can use to shift. Your car won’t be bricked. It’s down by the cellphone charger in the S/X and up above the rear view mirror on the 3+.

That's good to know, thank you.

 

[wtibbit]

With enough whining Tesla thankfully dropped the yoke. It seems sometimes they listen. Besides, what else are you supposed to do on a forum than discuss the ups and downs of the topic at hand?

Maybe....

If that's the case, we still have hope for a rear window that opens somehow and an outside shot for a mid-gate.

Unfortunately, you're right about what the forum is useful for at this point. I look forward to when the forum will actually be a Cybertruck OWNERS Club and it can be used to help us enjoy that ownership!

In the meantime.... Hey Tesla! Are you listening??? Hey! Where's that ramp in the tailgate? I really, really need that ramp!! It's an easy fix, just put in a stronger actuator for the tail gate and build a removable, folding aluminum ramp that can be bolted to the inside wall.

 

[PilotPete]

Ultimately though, I think Tesla should just put each set of options in the configurator for each of the models, (Stalks or Buttons, Wheels or Wheel-Yokes or Yokes), and let each buyer decide.

I certainly hope they don’t. Here is why. Tesla limits the options to improve efficiency and reduce cost of manufacturing the vehicle. When you start adding options, especially ones that add parts to the build, you increase the price for everyone. What you’re suggesting is what makes cars so expensive for the legacy OEMs.

 

[wtibbit]

I certainly hope they don’t. Here is why. Tesla limits the options to improve efficiency and reduce cost of manufacturing the vehicle. When you start adding options, especially ones that add parts to the build, you increase the price for everyone. What you’re suggesting is what makes cars so expensive for the legacy OEMs.

Sorry. I forgot to add the “/s”

 

[Crissa]

Losing the stalks is just idiotic, especially for countries that have roundabouts. Even Tesla Bjorn is complaining.

Or maybe he needs to use signals earlier and drive safer.

This example is frequently used but doesn’t work. You don’t use your phone in critical, potentially lethal, situations where your focus needs to be elsewhere. At least I hope you don’t. When people do use their phone in those situations, major accidents happen.

You should not be using your stalks in critical situations with the wheel turned.

In fact, you shouldn't be getting into critical situations while driving. It's a warning sign you're not driving well.

-Crissa

 

[Setok]

If you want to, you will adapt to the indicators. As for change of direction, again, with the lack of standardization amongst the manufacturers and models, I don't see it. Like I said, I think the screen swipe is MORE intuitive than all the different options. Ever drive a manual? Tell me, where is reverse on a manual transmission??? Left and up on this one, left and down on that one, right and up over here, right and down over there. But when you own the car, you know because you do it so often. The swipe will probably come to the same level of memory. For "real" buttons, come on. Comparing a keyboard to a phone or a car? When was the last time you typed 120 words per minute changing lanes? And IF you bother to listen to the M3+ reviews, every single one I've watched as said the feedback is so good, they can't tell if it is a real button or not. There's your feedback. And after a drive or two you will know where the buttons are, and commit them to unconscious memory. And Europe ain't that special for driving. Sorry, but everyone thinks it's better/harder/special where they are. "You don't understand what it is like here" is EVERYONE'S excuse. Well, I've spent more days in Europe this summer than home. Yes, it is different (especially where they drive on the other side), but guess what, you adapt. Do I have to think more in the UK? Yep, but I've never been at risk of a head on because I doula't figure it out. And guess what, the US has roundabouts too! Really! In fact some cities pride themselves on using it as their new standard intersection!

IF you want and try, you WILL adapt and create a new norm. If not, you're just stubborn.

Yes, you can adapt to different physical layouts (I’ve driven very different cars). That’s not an issue. The problem is a screen system doesn’t have tactile feedback. That just isn’t there, learn or not. It’s an inferior experience for literally no benefit.

Indicator buttons have feedback (limited), but they move with the steering wheel, making them much more difficult to use when the wheel is turned or even upside down, as is common in roundabouts (and actually even in tight bends). So yes you can adapt to pressing a button rather than flipping a stalk. No issue if the button is static (hell, I’ve used and enjoyed using a rocker switch for an indicator). But if they are moving with the wheel that will always be inferior to static.

Almost every M3 Highland review I have seen comments on this. The most unbiased of all reviewers (probably why he wasn’t invited to do the first reviews), Tesla Bjorn, outright cried at Tesla for doing that.

People don’t like it. The poll here shows it. For some it’s a minor nuisance, for others it’s a constant minor nuisance. Very few prefer it. I know there are people for whom it’s a dealbreaker. It’s borderline one for me. Even if seemingly small, it’s something you have to put up with multiple times a day.

 

[Setok]

Or maybe he needs to use signals earlier and drive safer.


You should not be using your stalks in critical situations with the wheel turned.

In fact, you shouldn't be getting into critical situations while driving. It's a warning sign you're not driving well.

-Crissa

You clearly haven’t driven on European roundabouts.

 

[Crissa]

You clearly haven’t driven on European roundabouts.

A multi-lane roundabout should be taken slowly and deliberately, your hands should never leave the wheel, and hence, never leave the indicator button reach.

No different than taking a motorcycle or bicycle through one. Which I do. https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...!3m3!8m2!3d36.9628391!4d-122.0238691?hl=en-us

Except this one is filled with tourists who don't know how to use them.

-Crissa

 

[Setok]

A multi-lane roundabout should be taken slowly and deliberately, your hands should never leave the wheel, and hence, never leave the indicator button reach.

No different than taking a motorcycle or bicycle through one. Which I do. https://www.google.com/maps/place/3...!3m3!8m2!3d36.9628391!4d-122.0238691?hl=en-us

Except this one is filled with tourists who don't know how to use them.

-Crissa

Look, I think you really need to drive here if you haven’t. You have to indicate when leaving a roundabout, in some countries you also do that when entering. Many roundabouts are tight. There is no way to navigate them safely without your hands shuffling and moving. The steering wheel is easily at 90 degrees, which is already very awkward or even dangerous to operate without shifting your hand position. But even further is not uncommon. So you’ve shuffled your hands and now need to indicate, which means finding the buttons in odd positions or even upside down. This is why no European car company designing for the mass market would place indicators that way

Just watch some of the videos on this. Watch Bjorn’s videos. This is an issue.

Hell, this was an issue for me even on a tight bend I encountered, when needing to indicate to turn off. The kind of tight bend which is not uncommon here. So you want me to straighten the wheel, jump up the kerb, kill some pedestrians, and then indicate?

 

[Fleetwood75]

I, for one, love the yoke on my Model X. It took a few days to get used to but now when I drive my Yukon I find myself annoyed with the round wheel and the shift lever. I would be very happy to see the same controls on the Cybertruck. I haven't used a square steering wheel before but my gut feeling is that I'd still like the yoke with its little knobbies better than a square wheel.

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